VCS Simple Procedure Notice Of Claim for PCN - NTK SCOTLAND

EW2711

Rocky1800 said:

Hi DetectKev, would be interested to hear how you got on. I've just this morning had a Simple Procedure claim from the same solicitor involving the same car park in Kirkcaldy. Many thanks. 

Got the same on 8th July - same solicitor, same car park. Must be sending them out in bulk.

£160! Can't believe they are pursuing it. Can't even remember parking there.

Any advice from anyone appreciated.

Coupon-mad

No new advice needed. 

Things will be different in a year or so in Scotland for new PCNs because you will be like us in England, with 'keeper liability' and also we will eventually all have a proper, truly independent appeals service.

EW2711

But it isn't a PCN it's a court citation. Can't be ignored. So have to pay?

Coupon-mad

Ah, sorry - you posted on a thread where a poster was told to ignore - but I've deleted that now as a few people are getting a proper claim and I made an assumption (as per our usual advice for Scotland).

You need your own new thread or it causes confusion.  Why pay? You can follow the Simple Procedure and defend it. No costs risk as long as you don't behave unreasonably like not turn up to the hearing.

If you were not driving, for instance, you cannot be held liable in Scotland and if the signage was unclear or the system entrapped the driver (e.g. broken machine or no phone signal) then there's a defence.

We don't have many Scottish posters here though - I think the only ones who might know a bit about the procedure are @henrik777 and @Grizebeck and @Old_Slobberchops

Coupon-mad

EW2711 said:

Rocky1800 said:

Hi DetectKev, would be interested to hear how you got on. I've just this morning had a Simple Procedure claim from the same solicitor involving the same car park in Kirkcaldy. Many thanks. 

Got the same on 8th July - same solicitor, same car park. Must be sending them out in bulk.

£160! Can't believe they are pursuing it. Can't even remember parking there.

Any advice from anyone appreciated.

As above - revised advice @EW2711 and @Rocky1800 - do not ignore actual Simple Procedure paperwork.  Decide whether you have a good defence case (hidden signage? Not the driver? Not a fair grace period? Etc).

Start a new thread and also ask CAB Scotland if there is free legal help in your area to check the paperwork with you.  There are some free law hubs in Scotland and unlike here, Scottish CAB is good on the subject of private parking tickets.

Grizebeck

The time scales are very strict for replying in a simple procedure case and you must follow the instructions to the letter. 
In Scotland it is still a very good defence that you were not the driver. But you can't just simply state you were not the driver. You would have to expand into a bit of detail(not war and Peace but for example an ex partner had used the car etc etc)
You can use the forms or reply online here
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/taking-action/civil-online-gateway/welcome2

If you do get advice beware of the limits on time and don't over run the time scales
(The advice centres are heavily over subscribed)

Good guidance here.

https://www.lawscot.org.uk/members/journal/issues/vol-62-issue-01/simple-procedure-its-complicated/

FirthofForth

@Detectkev @EW2711 @Rocky1800

hello, I’m curious to find out your outcomes in these cases ? 

Rocky1800

Hi @FirthofForth. In terms of an update, I submitted a defence earlier this month before the deadline which was based on not being the driver, misleading signage, and excessive fees. Since then, I've been contacted to attend a case management meeting this Thursday at 10am to discuss the claim. I would be lying if I said I wasn't freaking out a little. I've expanded a little on my defence points below in case anyone has any advice. 

Not being the driver: Over September-November 21, my ex-partner had access to the vehicle as hers was in for repairs and she needed something to do the school run in etc.I started working from home summer last year so hardly used the car anyway through the week. I've heard this isn't a great defence however, in those cases there are multiple incidents whereas mine is one event lasting 10 minutes. 

Misleading signage: There are three signs, two say Excel Parking while one says VCS. I originally attached a photo of one which says Excel along with my defence response. Earlier today I had a mail from their legal team sharing their evidence of VCS letters and a photo of a car park sign saying "you're entering a contract with VCS". After receiving, I rushed off to check again in case they'd updated their signs. As it happens the one at the entrance says Excel, then close by there's another (Excel) and then at the rear of the park there's the one they've shared next to the ticket machines which says VCS but has Excel Parking logos.  I've attached all of them and the Excel ones say "Excel manage and control this private car park" but the VCS one mentions that by using the park you're entering a contract with VCS. This to me seems pretty mad but maybe the sheriff will say it's perfectly fine and the VCS sign is the biggest but I'm not sure.

Excessive Fees: This is all for one event lasting 10 minutes. Their charge was £100 which in their letter said was reduced and would be increased by £60 if not paid in their timeframe. I didn't pay and so it's £160 along with their court fees and 8%. From the other cases, and news earlier this year about private parking firms having to cut their fees, I thought it would be worthwhile calling this out as it seems excessive for 10 minutes. 

I will be sure to follow up on this after Thursday and share any developments, hopefully I hear a verdict soon as I'd like to have all this behind me. 

Best regards
Sean

KeithP

@Rocky1800, surely you understand that in Scotland there is no possibility of any driver's liability being transferred to the keeper?
Just maintain you stance - "I am not the driver", and if you can prove it - maybe you were working at the time - so much the better.

Fruitcake

Rocky1800 said:

Excessive Fees: This is all for one event lasting 10 minutes. Their charge was £100 which in their letter said was reduced and would be increased by £60 if not paid in their timeframe. I didn't pay and so it's £160 along with their court fees and 8%. From the other cases, and news earlier this year about private parking firms having to cut their fees, I thought it would be worthwhile calling this out as it seems excessive for 10 minutes. 

The PPCs don't have to reduce their fees ... yet. 

In England and Wales, talking about "no loss" or "excessive amounts for 10 minutes" was killed by the Beavis Supreme Cort case, but I'm assuming this is irrelevant in Scotland.

The main point though is that in Scotland there is no keeper liability ... yet.

It the keeper was not the driver, then the keeper cannot be liable because there is no Scottish law that allows this ... yet.
When keeper liability is introduced in Scotland it will not be retrospective.

The PoFA 2012 was never enacted in Scotland, so Schedule 4 of the PoFA was never enacted, therefore you, the keeper, cannot be held liable.

At any and every hearing you need to keep repeating over and over that,

"I am the registered keeper. I was not driving. I cannot be held liable. There is no Scottish law that allows me to be held liable."

AS mentioned by KeithP, if you can prove you were not working by producing work logs, witness statements, or smart 'phone location history, then produce it.
If the clamant says you were or they believe you were driving, put them to strict proof that it is true, bearing in mind that perjury rules apply.

If they mention Elliot vs Loake (research it), laugh.