County Court claim received. Claimant UKPC Represented by DCB Legal for private 'pay and display'.

Juliansnemesis

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all that you do on here. Any help and advice would be very greatly received. I'll try to keep it succinct if not short. I have read the Newbies thread for Small Claims posted by Coupon-Mad and also read through the defence letter template where false admin costs are claimed.

What’s happened so far:

• PCN received from UKPC for parking in a private pay and display car park on 19/04/2019.

• In this instance I did not go through the appeals process with UKPC or POPLA.

• Various unpaid parking charge letters received from UKPC (notice to keeper) and then DCBL letters which bump the charge from £100 to £160.

• Letter of claim received from DCB Legal 30/06/2021. Followed thread guidance i.e. responded via email and submitted SAR to UKPC. 

• UKPC respond to SAR and DCB Legal respond to email quoting SEMARK-JULIEN case.

• Claim form received from County Court business centre dated 11th October. And forum thread consulted by me. Claimant UKPC represented by DCB Legal.

• AOS submitted on MCOL today (18/10/21).

• This means my 33 days to defend would be Sat 13th November 21 or Friday 12th if I can’t submit on a weekend.

Is it ok to post an outline of the circumstances straight on to this thread as well as ideas and questions re my defence? or should I save that for direct messages? I don't know if these companies scan the forums too.

Thanks.

KeithP

Juliansnemesis said:

• Claim form received from County Court business centre dated 11th October. And forum thread consulted by me. Claimant UKPC represented by DCB Legal.

• AOS submitted on MCOL today (18/10/21).

• This means my 33 days to defend would be Sat 13th November 21 or Friday 12th if I can’t submit on a weekend.

A Defence filing deadline, nor any other court deadline, will ever be on a Saturday, Sunday or Bank Holiday.

If the calculated deadline does fall on one of those days, one is allowed until 4pm on the next working day to file.

In your case that means...

With a Claim Issue Date of 11th October, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 15th November 2021 to file your Defence.

That's four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

D_P_Dance

Read thes and complain to your MP

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3229165/Is-PROOF-private-parking-firms-scamming-motorists-Drivers-say-timings-photos-doctored-legally-parked-cars-issued-fines.html

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6242993/court-report-brentford-telephone-ukpc-roasted#latest

Also,ttey have added what appears to be an extra unlawful amount for debt collection. Judges have dismissed an entire claim because of this. Read this and complain to your MP., read these

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V%20Excel%20v%20Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279348/witness-statements-2-transcripts-re-parking-firms-false-costs-recorder-cohen-qc-judgment-2021/p1

Coupon-mad

Yes please tell us about the circs and show us your draft additions to para 2 and 3 of the template defence.

Juliansnemesis

@Coupon-mad, @KeithP, @D_P_Dance,

Thank you all for your responses. I've outlined my circumstances below. Sorry it's a bit lengthy. This PCN is a result of genuine forgetfulness on my behalf rather than any attempt to avoid paying for parking and I welcome your feedback and advice.

Outline of Circumstances:

• I was the driver of the vehicle.

• I have been using this car park for years as a paying patron (can evidence).

• Parking payment is RingGo only (previously had pay machines which are still there but out of use)

• The only conditions of the car park are “Payment of the parking tariff must be made by phone using RingGo services” and “all vehicles must be parked only within marked bays”.

• There are no conditions set out anywhere in the car park stating at what point payment must be made. i.e. some car parks stipulate payment on arrival, others state pay before leaving.

• I arrived at the car park at around 4am. I didn’t make payment on arrival. I simply forgot to pay straight away. The PCN was issued at 10:53am. Time first seen 10:48am.

• The wording on the PCN is “parked without making a valid payment” which is not set out anywhere as a condition of parking.

• I paid the full day tariff (£6.45) at 3:54pm on the same day and well before arriving back at the car park and exiting in my vehicle.

• RingGo does not allow you to backdate the parking time. Previous app at the car park (whoosh) did.

• I returned to the car park at roughly 8:30pm.

• I have photographs and a video of the terrible and poorly written out signage at the car park.

• I also have photographs and video of a different, council run, car park with very clear signs and clear indication that payment must be made within ten minutes of arrival.

• I have several other PCN’s issued by UKPC at the same car park for exactly the same reason (I know! collective sigh of exasperation).

• I have appealed previously, being honest about forgetting to pay until later in the day and asking them to use their discretion and they have rejected this outright.

• This claim is for one PCN only.

Draft Defence to be added to Paragraph 2 and 3:

• I admit to being the Registered Keeper and the Driver of the vehicle on the day in question.

• I have not contravened the signposted conditions of the car park namely;

• I have paid the full Tariff required for parking using RingGo (have evidence of VAT receipt). This was done on the day of parking and well before returning to the car park and leaving in my vehicle

• The vehicle was parked within a marked bay.

• The parking charge notice wording has no bearing on the signposted parking conditions that result in a parking charge.

• There is no signage in the car park to suggest at what point payment for parking must be made.

• I did not go through the UKPC appeals process or POPLA because I have done so previously and believe it to be biased and pointless. 

Questions:

• Is it a case of ‘One bite of the cherry’ for these companies or can I potentially expect to receive more claims?

• As such should I refer to other PCN’s in my defence to explain why I didn't use their appeals process this time? (They have never cancelled a PCN previously when using their appeals or POPLA’s).

• Even though the signage is terrible at the car park, it is a pay and display and I am aware that UKPC operate there due to parking there for several years. Should I still use BEAVIS as part of my defence? 

• I have anecdotal evidence from a thread on this forum from ‘Mightbedave’ to suggest that UKPC have previously cancelled a PCN for exactly the same circumstances at the same car park. Can I refer to this in my defence?

• Do I effectively copy and paste the defence email inserting my specific defence in paragraphs 2 and 3 or do I need to read through it and edit as relevant?

• Should I also include the references highlighted by D_P_Dance in this thread or is that for info only?

• If successful should I then ask the court to consider the other PCN’s as well to get them cancelled?

Thanks.

Coupon-mad

Your defence looks on the right track;  by adding those facts to the forum template defence you will cover the bases your WS will layer develop.

They only get one bite at the court cherry - search the forum for Henderson estoppel.  

Don't add anything else, don't alter the template except to change #2 and 3 and a few paras beyond that, to fit your facts in with more paragraphs, all numbered, then change the numbering of the template below it.

Le_Kirk

Coupon-mad said:

Don't add anything else, don't alter the template except to change #2 and 3 and a few paras beyond that, to fit your facts in with more paragraphs, all numbered, then change the numbering of the template below it.

But do change "I" to "the defendant" from your suggested wording as defences are written in the third person.

Juliansnemesis

Thank you both. I will create my defence email and then add it here as an attachment just to make sure it's all correct before sending. 

Le_Kirk

Juliansnemesis said:

Thank you both. I will create my defence email and then add it here as an attachment just to make sure it's all correct before sending. 

If you are using the defence template, just post paragraphs 2 & 3 (and any more that you add) here, no need to post it all as we are not checking the work of @Coupon-mad just your potential submission.

Coupon-mad

Yes, to get it worded as a legally trained person would, a defence goes in the third person, not 'I', but that hardly matters, you don't lose a case for using the first person! 

Juliansnemesis

Hi @Coupon-mad, @Le_Kirk and  @D_P_Dance,

Here is the final draft of my defence email. Please tell me what you think.

FINAL DRAFT:

2.  It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of the vehicle on the day in question but liability is denied.  

3. The Defendant denies liability because they did not contravene the signposted conditions of the car park namely;

i) “Payment of the parking tariff must be made by phone using RingGo services”.

ii) “all vehicles must be parked only within marked bays”.

4. The defendant paid the full Tariff required for a full day’s parking using RingGo. This was done on the day of parking and well before the Defendant returned to the car park and left in their vehicle. The defendant's vehicle was parked within a marked bay.

5. The Defendant also denies liability because the parking charge notice wording has no bearing on the signposted parking conditions. The wording given on the Parking Charge Notice is “PARKED WITHOUT MAKING A VALID PAYMENT”.

6. None of the signs within the car park suggest at what point payment for parking must be made. The majority of car parks make this explicitly clear i.e. pay on arrival; within a specified time of arrival, or prior to leaving the car park. The signage within the car park was, and still is, poorly worded with small font sizes, not clearly set out in large bold font, inconsistent, in poor condition and not even relevant to the specific car park location or use.

QUESTIONS:

1) Do I wait to file my defence until nearer the November deadline or submit it when it's ready?

2) Does the fact that I am aware that UKPC operate in the car park, from previous PCN's being issued, affect any of the further template paragraphs created by you in relation to poor signage and penalties hidden in small print etc? The signs in this car park fall way below the BEAVIS standard.

and thanks yet again for your help.