Will it happen….Covid vaccine required to travel anywhere

tafelmoneysaver

Janey1a said:

at my age it makes sense to have added protection but at his young age I can understand his hesitation with a vaccine 

The vaccine and other measures aren't just about protecting oneself, but protecting the population.  How would you feel about an unvaccinated person bringing an infection on board causing another passenger serious illness, or worse death?

waptext

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58899460?fbclid=IwAR3BsfVXjyfS_8ZMdzgenbpi496oHe_ng_yjOn7ftKFg7tycsAQaQVkWunA

sheramber

waptext said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58899460?fbclid=IwAR3BsfVXjyfS_8ZMdzgenbpi496oHe_ng_yjOn7ftKFg7tycsAQaQVkWunA

These are not covid related deaths

What were the causes of death?

The 315 excess deaths logged last week represents a 30% increase on the five-year pre-pandemic average for this time of year.

They include;

• 44 cancer deaths,
• 40 more deaths linked to circulatory conditions,
• 27 dementia or Alzheimer's deaths,
• and seven from respiratory conditions.

strawb_shortcake

On the plus side I've found it quite humorous that some one I know that has been banned countless times from social media for sharing fake covid news and every conspiracy going as gospel, at present is unable to travel  as freely as he would like.  
He has influenced his son into the same mindset whilst in parallel told same Son that they will have a big blow out holiday in Florida, but Biden says NO!
Will be interesting to see if the travel or his anti vax views come out on top

ZaSa1418

tafelmoneysaver said:

Janey1a said:

at my age it makes sense to have added protection but at his young age I can understand his hesitation with a vaccine 

The vaccine and other measures aren't just about protecting oneself, but protecting the population.  How would you feel about an unvaccinated person bringing an infection on board causing another passenger serious illness, or worse death?

but even that doesn't make sense, if you are vaccinated and the vaccine works it doesn't matter if you are around unvaccinated people surely? Otherwise what is the point of the vaccine? What happened to natural immunity or has that become less scientific because the media doesn't talk about it? 

How would you feel if a vaccinated person who had covid at the time of boarding ( because face it they wouldn't know as they don't have to take a test before hand )boarded a plane and spread it to other travellers causing serious illness or death? 

ZaSa1418

Thrugelmir said:

Janey1a said:

I think a lot of people have been blindsided into the vaccine believing it’s the answer to everything but it doesn’t prevent you catching Covid or passing it on to others, not completely.

And the alternative is what?  Covid isn't going to suddenly disappear.  It's here to stay. Every day we all age and the personal health risks increase accordingly. Ask your son how he would feel if you contracted it from him and suffered severely as a consequence. As with many things in life, attitudes rapidly change when it's closer to home. Not just a media article about some random person. 

But this could happen if he gets vaccinated too, at the moment he has antibodies as he has just recovered from the virus, why are the vaccine antibodies better than ones your body has from fighting off the infection by itself? 

[Deleted User]

ZaSa1418 said:

Thrugelmir said:

Janey1a said:

I think a lot of people have been blindsided into the vaccine believing it’s the answer to everything but it doesn’t prevent you catching Covid or passing it on to others, not completely.

And the alternative is what?  Covid isn't going to suddenly disappear.  It's here to stay. Every day we all age and the personal health risks increase accordingly. Ask your son how he would feel if you contracted it from him and suffered severely as a consequence. As with many things in life, attitudes rapidly change when it's closer to home. Not just a media article about some random person. 

But this could happen if he gets vaccinated too, at the moment he has antibodies as he has just recovered from the virus, why are the vaccine antibodies better than ones your body has from fighting off the infection by itself? 

Natural immunity varies substantially depending on exposure to the virus whereas a vaccine produces a more predictable response. The debate about which is better is irrelevant though because at worst the vaccine will still act as a booster for your immune system. Being infected previously isn't a reason to avoid being vaccinated.

Incidentally, I find this particular debate (natural immunity vs vaccines) is by far the most popular argument anti-vax campaigners use, probably because they think it sounds more logical than just going full conspiracy theory on people. It's a line of argument that's intended to muddy the waters and make ordinary people question whether vaccination is necessary. It's often followed up with spurious arguments about it being inherently risky to get vaccinated after infection (e.g. citing the fact there are guidelines in some countries about waiting weeks/months before getting vaccinated after infection and erroneously claiming this is because of a proven safety risk).

sheramber

It has never been claimed that vaccinated prevented infection from covid/. What it does is reduces the risk of serious illness.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/coronavirus-reinfection-how-long-might-natural-immunity-last

• 
  
• Having studied the genome of SARS-CoV-2, researchers suggest that, among unvaccinated people, reinfection could happen as soon as 3 months after contracting the virus.

ZaSa1418

sheramber said:

It has never been claimed that vaccinated prevented infection from covid/. What it does is reduces the risk of serious illness.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/coronavirus-reinfection-how-long-might-natural-immunity-last

• 
  
• Having studied the genome of SARS-CoV-2, researchers suggest that, among unvaccinated people, reinfection could happen as soon as 3 months after contracting the virus.

Don't forget this bit of the same article:

• Scientists know that some people have developed COVID-19 more than once, but there are not enough data for scientists to be able to analyze how long “natural” immunity lasts.

The research, which appears in The Lancet Microbe, shows that unvaccinated people can expect immunity against reinfection to last 3–61 months after developing COVID-19 — if the virus is still circulating in the community.

be interesting when there is more data to see if they can narrow the 3-61 months down and give a better estimate

ZaSa1418

Deleted_User said:

ZaSa1418 said:

Thrugelmir said:

Janey1a said:

I think a lot of people have been blindsided into the vaccine believing it’s the answer to everything but it doesn’t prevent you catching Covid or passing it on to others, not completely.

And the alternative is what?  Covid isn't going to suddenly disappear.  It's here to stay. Every day we all age and the personal health risks increase accordingly. Ask your son how he would feel if you contracted it from him and suffered severely as a consequence. As with many things in life, attitudes rapidly change when it's closer to home. Not just a media article about some random person. 

But this could happen if he gets vaccinated too, at the moment he has antibodies as he has just recovered from the virus, why are the vaccine antibodies better than ones your body has from fighting off the infection by itself? 

Natural immunity varies substantially depending on exposure to the virus whereas a vaccine produces a more predictable response. The debate about which is better is irrelevant though because at worst the vaccine will still act as a booster for your immune system. Being infected previously isn't a reason to avoid being vaccinated.

Incidentally, I find this particular debate (natural immunity vs vaccines) is by far the most popular argument anti-vax campaigners use, probably because they think it sounds more logical than just going full conspiracy theory on people. It's a line of argument that's intended to muddy the waters and make ordinary people question whether vaccination is necessary. It's often followed up with spurious arguments about it being inherently risky to get vaccinated after infection (e.g. citing the fact there are guidelines in some countries about waiting weeks/months before getting vaccinated after infection and erroneously claiming this is because of a proven safety risk).

Well of course immunity depends on exposure but they still have no idea how long the vaccine immunity lasts either, it will last longer for some than it will others.  
In Italy where my work has an office based they all had to have antibody tests before they could get the vaccine, and if antibodies were high they had to wait to get the vaccine rather than overload the immune system. 
Many people are asking about the vaccines and natural immunity, people who have been vaccinated and people who haven't. There is nothing wrong with debating science