Tenancy term length

BubbleTea1

Hi all, looking for opinions on this please: we're looking to put in an offer on a rental property, and the term we have in mind is 12 months initially and then the contract becomes a monthly rolling contract where each party can give one month's notice (or two months' notice if need be) to terminate the tenancy. We intend to stay beyond the 12 month period if there are no issues with the property which obviously we don't know about right now. The estate agent however said that, as we don't intend to move out after 12 months anyway, we should propose a 3 to 4-year term with a 12-month break clause, which he said 'is the same as the term you proposed' i.e. after the initial 12 months if we want to end the tenancy we can just give a two months' notice and then move out.

I'm not sure if what the EA suggested is the same as the term we want, so would highly appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks!

BubbleTea1

Side note: the EA also told us that there has been an offer put on the property well over the asking price (he gave a specific figure as well) and for a 4-year term with a 24-month break clause. For a flat that has had the asking rent reduced 3 times, and someone suddenly jumps in with an offer that is even higher than the initial asking rent, right...

Pixie5740

BubbleTea1 said:

Hi all, looking for opinions on this please: we're looking to put in an offer on a rental property, and the term we have in mind is 12 months initially and then the contract becomes a monthly rolling contract where each party can give one month's notice (or two months' notice if need be) to terminate the tenancy. We intend to stay beyond the 12 month period if there are no issues with the property which obviously we don't know about right now. The estate agent however said that, as we don't intend to move out after 12 months anyway, we should propose a 3 to 4-year term with a 12-month break clause, which he said 'is the same as the term you proposed' i.e. after the initial 12 months if we want to end the tenancy we can just give a two months' notice and then move out.

I'm not sure if what the EA suggested is the same as the term we want, so would highly appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks!

A lot of break clauses are very badly written. I think the original plan of an initial 12 month fixed term and then moving on to periodic is the most sensible. 

Pixie5740

BubbleTea1 said:

Side note: the EA also told us that there has been an offer put on the property well over the asking price (he gave a specific figure as well) and for a 4-year term with a 24-month break clause. For a flat that has had the asking rent reduced 3 times, and someone suddenly jumps in with an offer that is even higher than the initial asking rent, right...

I wonder if the letting agent realises that a 4 year fixed term has to be executed as a deed. 

theartfullodger

Agent will want to be able to charge landlord (not you..) their 3 or 4 year term commission (often around 10%)..

I would humbly suggest 6 (or maybe 12 month then rolling periodic (what would happen if you didn't like the place, had problems with neighbours, schools were'nt acceptable, your job means you need to move yet you've signed up for 3 or 4 years???)

Artful: Landlord

PS Remember to be a lettings agent in England requires no qualifications, no training, no criminal records check: The office could be completely staffed by ex-prisoners on early release from their sentences for GBH & fraud.....  Entirely legal!

Other countries handle these things better: 

BubbleTea1

Thanks both, much appreciated! And @theartfullodger I completely agree with your PS note!  We've been renting for a long time now and yet EAs never fail to amaze us with how incompetent and sometimes blatantly lying they can be.

PRAISETHESUN

I'd be wary signing up for a 3-4 year agreement if you're not 100% sure about it - it's easier to say "no" now then after you've already signed a badly written document. Go back to the EA and insist on the standard 6-12 month AST which will continue on a periodic basis at the end of the fixed term. If after 12 months you feel you want more security you could then negotiate a further long-term contract.

Robbo66

the maximum term for an AST is 3 years, if you do a 3 year agreement with a break clause at 12 month this essentially creates a 12 month tenancy so just stick to your guns and insist on 12 month only. There is no benefit to you to sign for longer and include a break clause.

theartfullodger

Nope: An AST fixed term may be up to (I think..) 7 years: Up to 3 years it doesn't need to be in writing (!!!).  Over 3 years it must be enacted as a deed.   An AST after the end of the fixed terms rolls on automatically, monthly if tenant remains:  A landlord or agent cannot prevent this. 'sfunny how many pretend not to know.



And AST may be for 5 days, a week, 2 months, 6 months..... 'sfunny how many lettings agent are unaware of this

BubbleTea1

theartfullodger said:

Nope: An AST fixed term may be up to (I think..) 7 years: Up to 3 years it doesn't need to be in writing (!!!).  Over 3 years it must be enacted as a deed.   An AST after the end of the fixed terms rolls on automatically, monthly if tenant remains:  A landlord or agent cannot prevent this. 'sfunny how many pretend not to know.



And AST may be for 5 days, a week, 2 months, 6 months..... 'sfunny how many lettings agent are unaware of this

When the fixed term (12 months) has finished and the AST rolls on automatically, is it always the case that either party can give a 1-month notice to end the tenancy? Or does this depend on the individual contract?

MaryNB

BubbleTea1 said:

theartfullodger said:

Nope: An AST fixed term may be up to (I think..) 7 years: Up to 3 years it doesn't need to be in writing (!!!).  Over 3 years it must be enacted as a deed.   An AST after the end of the fixed terms rolls on automatically, monthly if tenant remains:  A landlord or agent cannot prevent this. 'sfunny how many pretend not to know.



And AST may be for 5 days, a week, 2 months, 6 months..... 'sfunny how many lettings agent are unaware of this

When the fixed term (12 months) has finished and the AST rolls on automatically, is it always the case that either party can give a 1-month notice to end the tenancy? Or does this depend on the individual contract?

If the periodic phase is not mentioned in the tenancy agreement it's a statutory period tenancy with a notice period of one month. If it's a contractual period tenancy (the periodic is mentioned in the tenancy agreement), the tenancy agreement should specify the notice period and it could specify something different, e.g. 2 months.
And when I say "month" it's really a rental period, i.e. the month has to line up with tenancy dates, unless the tenancy agreement says otherwise.

The landlord cannot end the tenancy with a 1 month notice. They have to issue an S21 notice (2 months) and then go to court if the tenant remains in the property after the S21 has expired.