Level 2 Survey old style fuse box

youth_leader

bflare, so sorry about your dear Dad.   As you say you have no idea about the process, I would recommend buying yourself this book from Amazon.  My husband died and I had to sell and buy for the first time on my own, I found it really helpful.  

Home • Help me, I'm buying a house (helpmeimbuyingahouse.co.uk)

Good luck  

bflare

GDB2222 said:

bflare said:

I think I'd just like to clarity things although I really shouldn't have to defend myself. 

As stated I am a first time buyer. I have absolutely no idea about the buying process. I'm 42 and rented since I was in my 20's. My Dad passed away tbis February after a short battle with cancer. He was the one i would normally ask advice from. I've been relying on a lady at work to help me and it was her who suggested that I ask the vendor to pay for the tests as she did when she sold her house. In hindsight I now see this as a mistake hence my email this morning to the EA saying I've no issue with paying.

I did not inspect the fuse box as I believed the  house was built in the early 90's and I believed the electrics shouldn't be an issue. Obviously i was wrong. 

Hi, I'm really sorry to hear about your dad passing away. 

On the electrics, it's likely that the cables in the walls and under the floors are fine, if they are less than 40 years old. I would replace the consumer unit, because I would want RCDs, but that's an easy job to do - I would guess a cost of around £300-500.

I'd be more concerned about needing new sockets. You can get those fitted with cables run in conduits on the surface of the walls, but that's a bit unsightly. If you want the cables buried in the plaster, that's possible, but it creates an awful lot of dust, and afterwards the channels will need filling, and it will all need redecorating. 

You mentioned a new burglar alarm. That's a bit of a red flag to me, for a 2 bed home. I would ask, through the solicitor, whether the owners have ever been burgled or there has been an attempted break-in. I would also check the crime stats for the area. 

By the way, I recently replaced a lot of double sockets in my house with 4 way sockets. That's a DIY job, and the sockets cost around £10.  There'll be howls of derision from the sparkies in a moment. 

Thank you.

It has been the same owners for over 20 years and from looking at the Google street view pictures it appears that they already had a burglar alarm but it's been upgraded. They also appear to have a front and back security camera fitted. I checked the crime stats which appear to be low and there were one burglary on the street on 2019. They also have dogs. 

I'm now concerned about the possible need for rewiring as the house has wood flooring throughout. I'm assuming this would all need to come up if a rewire was needed? 

GDB2222

Probably. What sort of wood flooring?

bflare

GDB2222 said:

Probably. What sort of wood flooring?

Standard laminate. Mind you the survey said the ground floor was concrete anyway plus I'm assuming laminate can be taken up and put back down again. I've laid laminate myself so I'd be confident doing that if it needed it any where.

bflare

I assumed looking at the kitchen and the sockets that the electrics would all be fine. I didn't think to check the fuse box. There appears to be only 2 circuits which surely isn't enough. The kitchen has been updated at some point so I assumed the electrics must have been checked then. 

michael1234

bflare said:

I assumed looking at the kitchen and the sockets that the electrics would all be fine. I didn't think to check the fuse box. There appears to be only 2 circuits which surely isn't enough. The kitchen has been updated at some point so I assumed the electrics must have been checked then. 

If there are only two circuits and you have an electric oven I would agree. You would need at least one for lighting and one for sockets and probably a third for the oven. Apart from that I agree with the poster who said an 80s or 90s house is unlikely to need a full rewire. But needing to run some 10mm t&e into the kitchen could be quite a disturbance depending on how far the oven is from the consumer unit and the route the cable would take.

But even so I wouldn't expect that to cost thousands. As a seller I would only be prepared to re-negotiate if something was found that couldn't reasonably have been known about and could cost a significant sum compared to the purchase price. e.g. 10K or more. Say we all found out a new roof is needed urgently or a nice garage is actually about to collapse. A few hundred quid or even a grand on a bit of electric work wouldn't do it and would just create animosity as you could factor that in when making the offer.

bflare

michael1234 said:

bflare said:

I assumed looking at the kitchen and the sockets that the electrics would all be fine. I didn't think to check the fuse box. There appears to be only 2 circuits which surely isn't enough. The kitchen has been updated at some point so I assumed the electrics must have been checked then. 

If there are only two circuits and you have an electric oven I would agree. You would need at least one for lighting and one for sockets and probably a third for the oven. Apart from that I agree with the poster who said an 80s or 90s house is unlikely to need a full rewire. But needing to run some 10mm t&e into the kitchen could be quite a disturbance depending on how far the oven is from the consumer unit and the route the cable would take.

But even so I wouldn't expect that to cost thousands. As a seller I would only be prepared to re-negotiate if something was found that couldn't reasonably have been known about and could cost a significant sum compared to the purchase price. e.g. 10K or more. Say we all found out a new roof is needed urgently or a nice garage is actually about to collapse. A few hundred quid or even a grand on a bit of electric work wouldn't do it and would just create animosity as you could factor that in when making the offer.

The surveyor reported the following: The meter and consumer unit are sited in the outside cupboard. The consumer unit contains MCBs (Miniature Circuit Breakers) and older type wire fuses to protect users should there be a defect with the installation. Where visible, the installation has been wired in plastic covered cable. There is no up-to-date test certiêcate for the electrical installation.

It appears that the outside cupboard where the meter is located is literally next to the kitchen so not far at all. 

I factored in a few grand for any work that was needed & I expected something to need doing. The vendor accepted my offer which was 3k below the asking price & the last thing I want to do is create any animosity. Just the thought of a rewire makes me very anxious. 

GDB2222

There have been a few rather misleading posts on this thread, based on the photo you took. Only two mcbs are visible in the photo, but it’s clear there are other old style fuses as well. So, there are in fact more than two circuits, and it’s possible that the wiring is okay, and the only job needed is a new consumer unit. 

It’s strange that just two of the circuits have been changed to mcbs. You should ask the sellers why. 

I suggest that you get an electrician to report, so that you can tick this off your worry list!

desthemoaner

michael1234 said:

Given the electrics were installed in the 80s the EICR is likely to throw up other issues. But you inspected the house before you put in your offer and you saw it was an 80s house and you saw the fuse box.

If I was asked to pay for an EICR and pay for the remedials I'd put it back on the market immediately. Everyone is different though and many might not be as annoyed as me !

 I'm not sure the OP was suggesting the vendor should pay for the EICR. If so, then that's clearly "pushing it" a bit and I too would refuse. The buyer pays for surveys, and the results of those surveys may, or may not establish the basis of further negotiation on price, as the case may be. That's the way I've always understood it, anyhow.

Its definitely feasible to change single sockets for doubles rather than adding new sockets via cable encased in unsightly surface-mounted trunking, or hacking channels in the plaster.  However, we have just 3 original sockets in our large lounge, and we've always managed with trailing sockets without any problems. 

Section62

GDB2222 said:

There have been a few rather misleading posts on this thread, based on the photo you took. Only two mcbs are visible in the photo, but it’s clear there are other old style fuses as well. So, there are in fact more than two circuits, and it’s possible that the wiring is okay, and the only job needed is a new consumer unit. 

I agree.  I thought the picture in the first post didn't allow the conclusion to be drawn that there were only two circuits, nor that any of the other ways had been left in an unsafe condition.

The surveyors comments would appear to confirm that at least some of the other circuits are protected by the original-style re-wireable fuses and there has been only a partial upgrade to MCBs.

GDB2222 said:

It’s strange that just two of the circuits have been changed to mcbs. You should ask the sellers why. 

I'd very much doubt the sellers will know, but still worth asking them.

I suspect it may be because the attitude in the past (and not entirely wrong today) is that MCBs may only offer marginal benefits over cartridge or re-wireable fuses.  Hence an upgrade done in the past may have been on the basis of only converting the circuits where it was deemed an advantage to do so.

The principal benefit for the end user is to be able to simply flip a switch to restore power after a fault, rather than having to stock and install replacement cartridges or wire.  From a safety perspective MCBs eliminate the risk of the end-user fitting the wrong rating of wire, or fitting entirely unsuitable 'fuses' like paperclips or nails.

So if there is an existing circuit for a cooker, protected by a 30A re-wireable fuse, then the question is how frequently might one expect to replace that 30A fuse because it has blown, and what is the risk involved in the fitting of incorrect fusewire?  Assuming the user isn't a complete fool, if they incorrectly fit 15A or 5A wire then it will 'blow' at a lower current than it should.  I don't ever recall having to replace a fuse or reset a MCB for a cooker circuit... and if one did blow/trip then I'd suspect a fault requiring professional help before restoring the power.

So someone historically upgrading the board on a budget could well decide that the benefits of MCBs on some of the circuits didn't justify the additional costs of doing so.