Soldering Copper Pipes (Again!)

paperclap

Hi all,

Along with renovating the rest of the house, I’ve started practicing soldering copper pipes again.

From what I’ve heard, the general rule of thumb is to use 15mm of solder for 15mm pipe / join.

Maybe I’m doing things wrong. But, I find this far too much. If I use this, I end up getting excessive solder inside the join and/or “snot”.

How are these joins?

Hopefully the photos are good enough!

Thanks

47Revisited

Nothing wrong with them joints. You may get different results depending on the flux and to a lesser extent the solder used.

Bendy_House

Now't wrong? That is perfection.

As near as.

Section62

laurencewhymark said:

From what I’ve heard, the general rule of thumb is to use 15mm of solder for 15mm pipe / join.

Maybe I’m doing things wrong. But, I find this far too much. If I use this, I end up getting excessive solder inside the join and/or “snot”.

Soldering is more of an art than a science, so it's more important to go by feel of what's right rather than sticking rigidly to rules of thumb.

Personally I thought 15mm sounded a lot, although the diameter of the solder wire will impact on the total volume of solder, so maybe I'm used to using thicker wire?

The joints look absolutely fine.  My only comment (not a criticism) would be if you were leaving the pipes unpainted you'd want to minimise the 'splodges' of solder away from the join. But if you are painting the pipes this isn't something to worry about.

For someone new to the art, those results are fantastic.

paperclap

Section62 said:

laurencewhymark said:

From what I’ve heard, the general rule of thumb is to use 15mm of solder for 15mm pipe / join.

Maybe I’m doing things wrong. But, I find this far too much. If I use this, I end up getting excessive solder inside the join and/or “snot”.

Soldering is more of an art than a science, so it's more important to go by feel of what's right rather than sticking rigidly to rules of thumb.

Personally I thought 15mm sounded a lot, although the diameter of the solder wire will impact on the total volume of solder, so maybe I'm used to using thicker wire?

The joints look absolutely fine.  My only comment (not a criticism) would be if you were leaving the pipes unpainted you'd want to minimise the 'splodges' of solder away from the join. But if you are painting the pipes this isn't something to worry about.

For someone new to the art, those results are fantastic.

I'm using Fernox's lead-free solder. Which, does actually seem quite thick, now you mention it.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/fernox-solder-wire-lead-free-500g/77198?tc=LA2&ds_kid=92700055281954514&ds_rl=1249404&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5JSLBhCxARIsAHgO2ScfQSbKPbspsRbBVhFTBtj-p5762RNLotqMauETK7vRVAQt7TWq21gaAv4zEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

For now, we're planning to leave them unpainted, and see how we like it. 'Tis why I'm trying my hardest to perfect a neat join! 

Section62

laurencewhymark said:

For now, we're planning to leave them unpainted, and see how we like it. 'Tis why I'm trying my hardest to perfect a neat join! 

In which case... if you can, try applying the solder wire only to a part of the joint which will be less visible (i.e. towards the back).

Over time both the pipe and solder will oxidise to a darker and less shiny finish. So unless you are planning to get the Brasso out regularly and polish the copper, any visible solder will be less noticeable in future.

paperclap

Section62 said:

laurencewhymark said:

For now, we're planning to leave them unpainted, and see how we like it. 'Tis why I'm trying my hardest to perfect a neat join! 

In which case... if you can, try applying the solder wire only to a part of the joint which will be less visible (i.e. towards the back).

Over time both the pipe and solder will oxidise to a darker and less shiny finish. So unless you are planning to get the Brasso out regularly and polish the copper, any visible solder will be less noticeable in future.

I've seen that be done, too, to hide the solder. Though, my concern would be, due to gravity (or lack of), would the solder find its way around to the front of the join successfully?

Funny you mention that, as I was shocked as to how fast the oxidisation happened on my previous soldering attempts, which was only a few weeks ago. After soldering, I cleaned them down and polished them with fine wire wool. But, have gone back to their former dark copper colour already.

However, on our current system where we have other bare copper... it hasn't oxidised at all, and looks bright and shiny. Is this because it is a closed system, compared to my other soldering attempts, which are open to the surrounding air?

Section62

laurencewhymark said:

I've seen that be done, too, to hide the solder. Though, my concern would be, due to gravity (or lack of), would the solder find its way around to the front of the join successfully?

The solder should 'flow' due to capillary action rather than gravity, so yes, if you are doing everything else right it shouldn't matter where you apply the solder in terms of getting the joint properly made.  When making vertical runs it is possible to get the solder to 'flow' upwards to make the bottom half of a joint.

One of the other reasons (which was getting too detailed to mention in my previous post) for applying the solder wire towards the back of the join is that it means the point furthest away from where the solder is being introduced is easier to see, and therefore it is easier to observe when sufficient 'flow' has taken place.  If instead you apply the solder wire at the front, then you've got to look around the back to confirm the solder has flowed that far.

laurencewhymark said:

Funny you mention that, as I was shocked as to how fast the oxidisation happened on my previous soldering attempts, which was only a few weeks ago. After soldering, I cleaned them down and polished them with fine wire wool. But, have gone back to their former dark copper colour already.

However, on our current system where we have other bare copper... it hasn't oxidised at all, and looks bright and shiny. Is this because it is a closed system, compared to my other soldering attempts, which are open to the surrounding air?

The amount of air getting to a pipe can affect the rate of oxidation, so too can heat.  I don't know if that explains what you've seen though.

Generally I find central heating pipes dull more rapidly than cold water ones.

paperclap

Section62 said:

laurencewhymark said:

I've seen that be done, too, to hide the solder. Though, my concern would be, due to gravity (or lack of), would the solder find its way around to the front of the join successfully?

The solder should 'flow' due to capillary action rather than gravity, so yes, if you are doing everything else right it shouldn't matter where you apply the solder in terms of getting the joint properly made.  When making vertical runs it is possible to get the solder to 'flow' upwards to make the bottom half of a joint.

One of the other reasons (which was getting too detailed to mention in my previous post) for applying the solder wire towards the back of the join is that it means the point furthest away from where the solder is being introduced is easier to see, and therefore it is easier to observe when sufficient 'flow' has taken place.  If instead you apply the solder wire at the front, then you've got to look around the back to confirm the solder has flowed that far.

laurencewhymark said:

Funny you mention that, as I was shocked as to how fast the oxidisation happened on my previous soldering attempts, which was only a few weeks ago. After soldering, I cleaned them down and polished them with fine wire wool. But, have gone back to their former dark copper colour already.

However, on our current system where we have other bare copper... it hasn't oxidised at all, and looks bright and shiny. Is this because it is a closed system, compared to my other soldering attempts, which are open to the surrounding air?

The amount of air getting to a pipe can affect the rate of oxidation, so too can heat.  I don't know if that explains what you've seen though.

Generally I find central heating pipes dull more rapidly than cold water ones.

Thanks! I'll give that a go this evening, and see how I do.

Had planned on using Brasso to polish all the pipes... but don't want to be having to do it every week! Will just have to wait and see 

bris

The trick is to use less solder and not over do it.

The flux is important as it's where the solder flows so once you flux the end of the pipe and insert it into the fitting make sure you clean the excess off.

If room allows heat from bellow when when hot enough apply the solder from the lowest point and when you see the solder exit the top then it's done. It is very easy to over solder though and thats the bit you need to perfect.

Those joints look good though so nothing wrong with them