Is there money to be made in renting?

[Deleted User]

Murphybear said:

andy444 said:

Norman_Castle said:

[Deleted User] said:

It's also immoral as someone else could buy your house and pay much less on a mortgage than they will pay you in rent. There is a shortage of housing to live in and letting property makes it worse.

That assumes "someone else" could finance the mortgage and it remains cheaper than rent. It also ignores ongoing maintenance costs.

lol How does letting properties reduce the number of available homes?

At the end of the day you're making money from other people's hard work. I can understand why people do it but it's not the most moral pursuit.

Sorry, that’s utter rubbish.

Everyone needs somewhere to live.

Assuming they are not living with relatives then their choices are either buying somewhere or renting somewhere

Many many people cannot buy for a number of reasons such as don’t earn enough, cannot save for a deposit, have poor credit history or CCJs, no affordable properties available etc

They therefor must live with friends or family, live in a tent, live on the streets or find somewhere to rent.

Rental properties need landlords.  These can be social housing such as council or Housing Associations or private landlords. Unless people are single with children or disabled getting a social housing property is next to impossible

That leaves private landlords.  For individuals to become landlords they have to buy a property.  

You think that is not moral.  Why?  If private landlords did not exist and social housing is difficult to get then a few million people would be on the streets.  

Now that is not moral is it?

I hate this "blame the person who can't buy" mentality.

People might be able to afford houses if landlords were not buying them up, which pushes prices up. Landlords with cash who intend to split the property into multiple flats are the worst, it's almost impossible for FTBs to compete with them. Who is the buyer going to take, someone offering cash and who doesn't care what condition it's in, or a FTB who needs a mortgage and whose mortgage provider will want to scrutinise everything and possibly come up with a lower valuation?

In the last year house prices rose by £25,000 on average. Much more in areas where the jobs are.

Crashy_Time

[Deleted User] said:

Murphybear said:

andy444 said:

Norman_Castle said:

[Deleted User] said:

It's also immoral as someone else could buy your house and pay much less on a mortgage than they will pay you in rent. There is a shortage of housing to live in and letting property makes it worse.

That assumes "someone else" could finance the mortgage and it remains cheaper than rent. It also ignores ongoing maintenance costs.

lol How does letting properties reduce the number of available homes?

At the end of the day you're making money from other people's hard work. I can understand why people do it but it's not the most moral pursuit.

Sorry, that’s utter rubbish.

Everyone needs somewhere to live.

Assuming they are not living with relatives then their choices are either buying somewhere or renting somewhere

Many many people cannot buy for a number of reasons such as don’t earn enough, cannot save for a deposit, have poor credit history or CCJs, no affordable properties available etc

They therefor must live with friends or family, live in a tent, live on the streets or find somewhere to rent.

Rental properties need landlords.  These can be social housing such as council or Housing Associations or private landlords. Unless people are single with children or disabled getting a social housing property is next to impossible

That leaves private landlords.  For individuals to become landlords they have to buy a property.  

You think that is not moral.  Why?  If private landlords did not exist and social housing is difficult to get then a few million people would be on the streets.  

Now that is not moral is it?

I hate this "blame the person who can't buy" mentality.

People might be able to afford houses if landlords were not buying them up, which pushes prices up. Landlords with cash who intend to split the property into multiple flats are the worst, it's almost impossible for FTBs to compete with them. Who is the buyer going to take, someone offering cash and who doesn't care what condition it's in, or a FTB who needs a mortgage and whose mortgage provider will want to scrutinise everything and possibly come up with a lower valuation?

In the last year house prices rose by £25,000 on average. Much more in areas where the jobs are.

Down mainly to the SDH IMO, unlikely to last.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/banks-pull-cheapest-mortgage-deals-083200927.html

csgohan4

[Deleted User] said:

Murphybear said:

andy444 said:

Norman_Castle said:

[Deleted User] said:

It's also immoral as someone else could buy your house and pay much less on a mortgage than they will pay you in rent. There is a shortage of housing to live in and letting property makes it worse.

That assumes "someone else" could finance the mortgage and it remains cheaper than rent. It also ignores ongoing maintenance costs.

lol How does letting properties reduce the number of available homes?

At the end of the day you're making money from other people's hard work. I can understand why people do it but it's not the most moral pursuit.

Sorry, that’s utter rubbish.

Everyone needs somewhere to live.

Assuming they are not living with relatives then their choices are either buying somewhere or renting somewhere

Many many people cannot buy for a number of reasons such as don’t earn enough, cannot save for a deposit, have poor credit history or CCJs, no affordable properties available etc

They therefor must live with friends or family, live in a tent, live on the streets or find somewhere to rent.

Rental properties need landlords.  These can be social housing such as council or Housing Associations or private landlords. Unless people are single with children or disabled getting a social housing property is next to impossible

That leaves private landlords.  For individuals to become landlords they have to buy a property.  

You think that is not moral.  Why?  If private landlords did not exist and social housing is difficult to get then a few million people would be on the streets.  

Now that is not moral is it?

I hate this "blame the person who can't buy" mentality.

People might be able to afford houses if landlords were not buying them up, which pushes prices up. Landlords with cash who intend to split the property into multiple flats are the worst, it's almost impossible for FTBs to compete with them. Who is the buyer going to take, someone offering cash and who doesn't care what condition it's in, or a FTB who needs a mortgage and whose mortgage provider will want to scrutinise everything and possibly come up with a lower valuation?

In the last year house prices rose by £25,000 on average. Much more in areas where the jobs are.

You cannot expect everyone to be able to afford a house, no matter how cheap they are perception wise. 

You think a LL were born with a real estate empire to boot via a silver spoon in their mouths? Alot of them work hard and rise through their jobs like everyone else and choose their investments as BTL. 

Everyone at least should be given a chance to rent, either socially or privately. But to own a house, is a different issue.

As Banks are more tightly regulated, are you advocating they should lend far beyond the x4.5 gross salary cap? Who will be at fault if they can't keep up with payments? In this day and age, it won't be the buyer but the lender sadly. Affordability is key now a days in the highly regulated mortgage industry.

You want to know one of the reasons? People can't be trusted, ergo the self declared mortgages which in part caused house prices/economy to crash, hence why regulations have been ramped up.

As been discussed on threads, cash buyers or FTB do not make a difference, it is the price they offer. You are aware the Cash buyers can walk away scott free, while FTB''s will have invested money via survey's e.t.c or worse gazunder prior to exchange as they don't need a mortgage

Not every house a FTB buy's is from a LL, nor why would you buy a house with tenants in situ given it takes 1-2 years to evict. 

It is simple economics, you can't save enough, you don't earn enough, why is a bank going to lend someone on minimum wage/ low benefits for a house that is >x4/5 their gross salary? they would barely be able to keep up repayments and bare in mind interest rates will be rising next year. 

Or do you advocate people get in financial ruin for buying a house is worth it? that sudden unexpected bill, a new boiler, new roof, expensive repairs, could tip some people over the edge. I had to dump almost £700 on boiler repairs over the last 2 years, you think people will be able to afford that easily?

That doesn't cover the thousands I've forked out fixing a leaking ceiling pipe from finding water through the celling plaster and kitchen wet

No more LL to cry to for fixing your stuff

House prices rising is market forces and simple capitalism. You don't like it, you can of course go to a socialist state and try your luck

rexmedorum

When we started out there was no way we would have wanted to buy even if we could afford it. First as students and later as new graudates we really prefered the flexibility of renting.

csgohan4

[Deleted User] said:

csgohan4 said:

SpiderLegs said:

You can pretty much guarantee that when all these people get their hands on the brand spanking new builds that rigoloth thinks evil LLs are going to pay for, he will then move on to demanding that another set of people who have more stuff than he would like have to pay for his improverished pals’ new roof, bigger telly, holidays in Marbella ….etc.

The joys of soundbite socialism….

For all of capitalism flaws, it has one simple rule, Work make money, work smarter, get more money, most of all better yourself.

The American Dream. Work hard and you can make it.

It's a lie. In reality who your parents are counts for a hell of a lot, just to start with.

Hard word is often not rewarded. For example, productivity has been steadily increasing but wages have not. The extra profit from that hard work has gone to the employers, not the staff. Employers aren't there to reward your efforts, they are trying to extract the maximum amount of work for the minimum amount of cost.

Sometimes, like right now, the market favours the workers and wages rise a bit. But most of the time that's not the case. It's worse for younger people. Their parents did better than their parents, they saw their incomes rise, got decent pensions, and were able to own property that increased to multiples of what they paid for it. They burned all the oil without a care for the consequences.

Younger generations look at that, see that all the opportunities are drying up and that they are expected to fund care and pensions without much prospect of having any themselves. Boomers tell them to work hard and give up the iPhone, but it's all nonsense. Anyone can plainly see that things are less affordable now than they ever were, property being the one of the worst.

And this is before we deal with climate change.

So are you advocating we should all give up and live on benefits and hand outs?

You only get out of life what you put in. So if you better yourself, get good qualifications and a good job and rise through the ranks, seems a reasonable thing to do. Indeed in America and here, people work 2-3 jobs at a time to save money for a better tomorrow

What may or may not happen with taxes, previous generations, e.t.c is not something you have control, the notion of the last generation had it better, so what, how does that help you now? Being miserable about it and not doing anything about it is self defeatist attitude to have

What you have control over is your own destiny and a choice what to do in life. Make life comfortable for yourself and get self sustainable financially. Or live on the bread line and always complaining about low benefits, poverty and migrants taking up work, you won't do. 

[Deleted User]

csgohan4 said:

[Deleted User] said:

csgohan4 said:

SpiderLegs said:

You can pretty much guarantee that when all these people get their hands on the brand spanking new builds that rigoloth thinks evil LLs are going to pay for, he will then move on to demanding that another set of people who have more stuff than he would like have to pay for his improverished pals’ new roof, bigger telly, holidays in Marbella ….etc.

The joys of soundbite socialism….

For all of capitalism flaws, it has one simple rule, Work make money, work smarter, get more money, most of all better yourself.

The American Dream. Work hard and you can make it.

It's a lie. In reality who your parents are counts for a hell of a lot, just to start with.

Hard word is often not rewarded. For example, productivity has been steadily increasing but wages have not. The extra profit from that hard work has gone to the employers, not the staff. Employers aren't there to reward your efforts, they are trying to extract the maximum amount of work for the minimum amount of cost.

Sometimes, like right now, the market favours the workers and wages rise a bit. But most of the time that's not the case. It's worse for younger people. Their parents did better than their parents, they saw their incomes rise, got decent pensions, and were able to own property that increased to multiples of what they paid for it. They burned all the oil without a care for the consequences.

Younger generations look at that, see that all the opportunities are drying up and that they are expected to fund care and pensions without much prospect of having any themselves. Boomers tell them to work hard and give up the iPhone, but it's all nonsense. Anyone can plainly see that things are less affordable now than they ever were, property being the one of the worst.

And this is before we deal with climate change.

So are you advocating we should all give up and live on benefits and hand outs?

You only get out of life what you put in. So if you better yourself, get good qualifications and a good job and rise through the ranks, seems a reasonable thing to do. Indeed in America and here, people work 2-3 jobs at a time to save money for a better tomorrow

What may or may not happen with taxes, previous generations, e.t.c is not something you have control, the notion of the last generation had it better, so what, how does that help you now? Being miserable about it and not doing anything about it is self defeatist attitude to have

What you have control over is your own destiny and a choice what to do in life. Make life comfortable for yourself and get self sustainable financially. Or live on the bread line and always complaining about low benefits, poverty and migrants taking up work, you won't do. 

How exactly do you get from "the system is stacked against people and work is not properly rewarded" to "we should all live on benefits"?

You say "make life comfortable for yourself" like it's easy, or even possible for a lot of people. They don't have the opportunities you did, those opportunities have been taken away. Doubtless you will now say "make your own opportunities", another meaningless bit of feel-good advice with no practical solutions to these problems.

csgohan4

[Deleted User] said:

csgohan4 said:

[Deleted User] said:

csgohan4 said:

SpiderLegs said:

You can pretty much guarantee that when all these people get their hands on the brand spanking new builds that rigoloth thinks evil LLs are going to pay for, he will then move on to demanding that another set of people who have more stuff than he would like have to pay for his improverished pals’ new roof, bigger telly, holidays in Marbella ….etc.

The joys of soundbite socialism….

For all of capitalism flaws, it has one simple rule, Work make money, work smarter, get more money, most of all better yourself.

The American Dream. Work hard and you can make it.

It's a lie. In reality who your parents are counts for a hell of a lot, just to start with.

Hard word is often not rewarded. For example, productivity has been steadily increasing but wages have not. The extra profit from that hard work has gone to the employers, not the staff. Employers aren't there to reward your efforts, they are trying to extract the maximum amount of work for the minimum amount of cost.

Sometimes, like right now, the market favours the workers and wages rise a bit. But most of the time that's not the case. It's worse for younger people. Their parents did better than their parents, they saw their incomes rise, got decent pensions, and were able to own property that increased to multiples of what they paid for it. They burned all the oil without a care for the consequences.

Younger generations look at that, see that all the opportunities are drying up and that they are expected to fund care and pensions without much prospect of having any themselves. Boomers tell them to work hard and give up the iPhone, but it's all nonsense. Anyone can plainly see that things are less affordable now than they ever were, property being the one of the worst.

And this is before we deal with climate change.

So are you advocating we should all give up and live on benefits and hand outs?

You only get out of life what you put in. So if you better yourself, get good qualifications and a good job and rise through the ranks, seems a reasonable thing to do. Indeed in America and here, people work 2-3 jobs at a time to save money for a better tomorrow

What may or may not happen with taxes, previous generations, e.t.c is not something you have control, the notion of the last generation had it better, so what, how does that help you now? Being miserable about it and not doing anything about it is self defeatist attitude to have

What you have control over is your own destiny and a choice what to do in life. Make life comfortable for yourself and get self sustainable financially. Or live on the bread line and always complaining about low benefits, poverty and migrants taking up work, you won't do. 

How exactly do you get from "the system is stacked against people and work is not properly rewarded" to "we should all live on benefits"?

You say "make life comfortable for yourself" like it's easy, or even possible for a lot of people. They don't have the opportunities you did, those opportunities have been taken away. Doubtless you will now say "make your own opportunities", another meaningless bit of feel-good advice with no practical solutions to these problems.

but if you don't try you won't know, this defeatist attitude also doesn't help and excuses come thereafter. 

Opportunities that came with one's own ambitions, will power and most of all unwillingness to live on the breadline and poverty. 

I never said it was easy, you don't get promoted from day 1, sacrifices, long hours, little to luxuries e.t.c.

One thing I will agree, yes no matter how hard you try, you may not get as much money as you want or in a position to be super comfortable, but unlike the lottery, it will be much better odds and you might learn more life lessons on the way.  Every little helps and even a few hundred/ thousand extra in money every year goes along way to keep people comfortable. 

Practical solutions, well don't P%$$ up school and work at it, you may not get all A's but if you give up from the day you go to school and moan saying the older generation had it good, your not going to get anywhere in life  are you?

I am not even 40 and I don't hold no grudge to the older generation, they had their own problems, remember interest rates being double figures?

Giving yourself excuses and making yourself feel good for claiming benefits and giving up without trying is not great either

instead of letting the system control you, build yourself and adapt around the system and let it work for you. You think Successful entrepreneurs gave up before starting? they had to front costs early on and struggled. 

Crashy_Time

There was money to be made in BTL, but I think the banks made most of it.

[Deleted User]

csgohan4 said:

[Deleted User] said:

csgohan4 said:

[Deleted User] said:

csgohan4 said:

SpiderLegs said:

You can pretty much guarantee that when all these people get their hands on the brand spanking new builds that rigoloth thinks evil LLs are going to pay for, he will then move on to demanding that another set of people who have more stuff than he would like have to pay for his improverished pals’ new roof, bigger telly, holidays in Marbella ….etc.

The joys of soundbite socialism….

For all of capitalism flaws, it has one simple rule, Work make money, work smarter, get more money, most of all better yourself.

The American Dream. Work hard and you can make it.

It's a lie. In reality who your parents are counts for a hell of a lot, just to start with.

Hard word is often not rewarded. For example, productivity has been steadily increasing but wages have not. The extra profit from that hard work has gone to the employers, not the staff. Employers aren't there to reward your efforts, they are trying to extract the maximum amount of work for the minimum amount of cost.

Sometimes, like right now, the market favours the workers and wages rise a bit. But most of the time that's not the case. It's worse for younger people. Their parents did better than their parents, they saw their incomes rise, got decent pensions, and were able to own property that increased to multiples of what they paid for it. They burned all the oil without a care for the consequences.

Younger generations look at that, see that all the opportunities are drying up and that they are expected to fund care and pensions without much prospect of having any themselves. Boomers tell them to work hard and give up the iPhone, but it's all nonsense. Anyone can plainly see that things are less affordable now than they ever were, property being the one of the worst.

And this is before we deal with climate change.

So are you advocating we should all give up and live on benefits and hand outs?

You only get out of life what you put in. So if you better yourself, get good qualifications and a good job and rise through the ranks, seems a reasonable thing to do. Indeed in America and here, people work 2-3 jobs at a time to save money for a better tomorrow

What may or may not happen with taxes, previous generations, e.t.c is not something you have control, the notion of the last generation had it better, so what, how does that help you now? Being miserable about it and not doing anything about it is self defeatist attitude to have

What you have control over is your own destiny and a choice what to do in life. Make life comfortable for yourself and get self sustainable financially. Or live on the bread line and always complaining about low benefits, poverty and migrants taking up work, you won't do. 

How exactly do you get from "the system is stacked against people and work is not properly rewarded" to "we should all live on benefits"?

You say "make life comfortable for yourself" like it's easy, or even possible for a lot of people. They don't have the opportunities you did, those opportunities have been taken away. Doubtless you will now say "make your own opportunities", another meaningless bit of feel-good advice with no practical solutions to these problems.

but if you don't try you won't know, this defeatist attitude also doesn't help and excuses come thereafter. 

Opportunities that came with one's own ambitions, will power and most of all unwillingness to live on the breadline and poverty. 

I never said it was easy, you don't get promoted from day 1, sacrifices, long hours, little to luxuries e.t.c.

One thing I will agree, yes no matter how hard you try, you may not get as much money as you want or in a position to be super comfortable, but unlike the lottery, it will be much better odds and you might learn more life lessons on the way.  Every little helps and even a few hundred/ thousand extra in money every year goes along way to keep people comfortable. 

Practical solutions, well don't P%$$ up school and work at it, you may not get all A's but if you give up from the day you go to school and moan saying the older generation had it good, your not going to get anywhere in life  are you?

I am not even 40 and I don't hold no grudge to the older generation, they had their own problems, remember interest rates being double figures?

Giving yourself excuses and making yourself feel good for claiming benefits and giving up without trying is not great either

instead of letting the system control you, build yourself and adapt around the system and let it work for you. You think Successful entrepreneurs gave up before starting? they had to front costs early on and struggled. 

It's not defeatist, it's reality. People are trying, every day, as hard as they can.

This is what I mean about this toxic assumption that people just need to work harder and if they don't succeed it's because they didn't try.

Average house price in the UK is over £270k, so to buy an average house on a 4.5x salary multiplier you need to be earning at least £60k and have £27k saved for a 10% deposit. So about double the average salary and 12.5 years of the average monthly household savings. At the moment monthly price rises are 25x the average monthly household savings.

Of course, in many areas prices are higher than that, and if interest rates go up people who stretched that far will be in trouble. Inflation is now reducing people's ability to save too.

hazyjo

[Deleted User] said:

csgohan4 said:

[Deleted User] said:

csgohan4 said:

[Deleted User] said:

csgohan4 said:

SpiderLegs said:

You can pretty much guarantee that when all these people get their hands on the brand spanking new builds that rigoloth thinks evil LLs are going to pay for, he will then move on to demanding that another set of people who have more stuff than he would like have to pay for his improverished pals’ new roof, bigger telly, holidays in Marbella ….etc.

The joys of soundbite socialism….

For all of capitalism flaws, it has one simple rule, Work make money, work smarter, get more money, most of all better yourself.

The American Dream. Work hard and you can make it.

It's a lie. In reality who your parents are counts for a hell of a lot, just to start with.

Hard word is often not rewarded. For example, productivity has been steadily increasing but wages have not. The extra profit from that hard work has gone to the employers, not the staff. Employers aren't there to reward your efforts, they are trying to extract the maximum amount of work for the minimum amount of cost.

Sometimes, like right now, the market favours the workers and wages rise a bit. But most of the time that's not the case. It's worse for younger people. Their parents did better than their parents, they saw their incomes rise, got decent pensions, and were able to own property that increased to multiples of what they paid for it. They burned all the oil without a care for the consequences.

Younger generations look at that, see that all the opportunities are drying up and that they are expected to fund care and pensions without much prospect of having any themselves. Boomers tell them to work hard and give up the iPhone, but it's all nonsense. Anyone can plainly see that things are less affordable now than they ever were, property being the one of the worst.

And this is before we deal with climate change.

So are you advocating we should all give up and live on benefits and hand outs?

You only get out of life what you put in. So if you better yourself, get good qualifications and a good job and rise through the ranks, seems a reasonable thing to do. Indeed in America and here, people work 2-3 jobs at a time to save money for a better tomorrow

What may or may not happen with taxes, previous generations, e.t.c is not something you have control, the notion of the last generation had it better, so what, how does that help you now? Being miserable about it and not doing anything about it is self defeatist attitude to have

What you have control over is your own destiny and a choice what to do in life. Make life comfortable for yourself and get self sustainable financially. Or live on the bread line and always complaining about low benefits, poverty and migrants taking up work, you won't do. 

How exactly do you get from "the system is stacked against people and work is not properly rewarded" to "we should all live on benefits"?

You say "make life comfortable for yourself" like it's easy, or even possible for a lot of people. They don't have the opportunities you did, those opportunities have been taken away. Doubtless you will now say "make your own opportunities", another meaningless bit of feel-good advice with no practical solutions to these problems.

but if you don't try you won't know, this defeatist attitude also doesn't help and excuses come thereafter. 

Opportunities that came with one's own ambitions, will power and most of all unwillingness to live on the breadline and poverty. 

I never said it was easy, you don't get promoted from day 1, sacrifices, long hours, little to luxuries e.t.c.

One thing I will agree, yes no matter how hard you try, you may not get as much money as you want or in a position to be super comfortable, but unlike the lottery, it will be much better odds and you might learn more life lessons on the way.  Every little helps and even a few hundred/ thousand extra in money every year goes along way to keep people comfortable. 

Practical solutions, well don't P%$$ up school and work at it, you may not get all A's but if you give up from the day you go to school and moan saying the older generation had it good, your not going to get anywhere in life  are you?

I am not even 40 and I don't hold no grudge to the older generation, they had their own problems, remember interest rates being double figures?

Giving yourself excuses and making yourself feel good for claiming benefits and giving up without trying is not great either

instead of letting the system control you, build yourself and adapt around the system and let it work for you. You think Successful entrepreneurs gave up before starting? they had to front costs early on and struggled. 

Average house price in the UK is over £270k, so to buy an average house on a 4.5x salary multiplier you need to be earning at least £60k and have £27k saved for a 10% deposit. So about double the average salary and 12.5 years of the average monthly household savings. At the moment monthly price rises are 25x the average monthly household savings.

Not many go straight in with an average house though. Most FTBs will be starting off with small flats. We've all been there, I had 2 to start off with. It took many years to get a semi with a driveway! Can't compare what a couple in their 50s might buy against a 20 year old single FTB on a starting salary. Sorry if I've gone off track, I just wanted to mention it.