Loft conversion (Merged)

lycane

Section62 said:

lycane said:

babyblade41 said:

It does sound as you are intent on the compo route, but be prepared to have deep pockets and be prepared for a very long process 

You can only do so on fact and have evidence to back it up , same with monetary loss ie loss of earnings due to stress which would be backed up by a medical expert 

What the LL allegedly may have done illegally can only be reported
to the relevant authorities and is not up to you to say how they will proceed.

Once you have left the property your case will get weaker 

you do not always need lawyers for doing so, I won cases in the past myself

Whilst people can and do successfully conduct legal action as litigants in person, I'd suggest - gently, and without criticism - that the skills and knowledge required to pursue a personal injury claim as a LIP are such that it is improbable that someone who needed to visit a forum and ask the questions you did in the OP is going to get a positive outcome.

PI claims are a specialist topic, often conducted by legal practices on the basis the party being claimed against (or more likely their insurers) will pay up simply to avoid the hassle and cost of defending the claim.  On the basis of what you've said about the landlord I would doubt that he has an insurer to fall back on, and probably isn't the kind of person who will give in easily to (legal) threats.

If you get to court (and in the current climate that will take a long time), without legal representation you will be on your own, and won't be able to ask the judge to wait while you research the situation or ask further questions on an online forum.  When you walk through the court door you will need to already have answers to cover every eventuality.

Furthermore, whilst the landlord's behaviour may be regarded as reprehensible, do not make the assumption that will put the court squarely on your side.  Landlords get away with what they do because there is a supply of tenants willing (or needing) to rent from them.

The knowledge and expertise you will need to successfully act as a LIP may make the court question whether you should have known what a dodgy landlord he was from the start, and by (for example) avoiding paying council tax, the court may be left considering you to have some culpability in the outcome you've suffered.

I'd strongly encourage you to get professional legal advice before starting a PI (or any other) legal claim against the landlord.

(INAL)

thanks, we will consider it however we will not be alone, I mentioned non profit organisation and once I found them it encouraged me to act this way. When you ask questions on forum it is a very beginning of some research. I was 'green' in the past as well and even so won the case. You learn as you go, I had almost zero knowledge about all this renting issues before. Our renting time was mainly during COVID we had no chance to react and act immediately.

I agree it is always better to use the lawyer though and was talking to Shelter  already, will talk to Citizens  Advice as well. As a start.

There are less tenants  needing to rent from this sort of landlords (I didnt know what sort of landlord it is) as the market has changed and flats are cheaper to rent now either thanks to COVID or Brexit or both most probably. Also in most cases landlords get away with what they do because tenants do not have time for dealing with it.
I wish covid changed this 'scenery' and more people will sue their landlords

MaryNB

lycane said:

MaryNB said:

lycane said:

MaryNB said:

lycane said:

It's a meter not metrometer. I have no idea there is a law against his type set up but energy meters are installed and owned by the suppliers and there should be one per property. 

Well he got stressed because it's clearly an illegal subdivision. The landlord paying the council tax is a clear red flag. He should only be paying the council tax for a single property if the tenants living in it are on separate contracts. If you and whoever else lives in your flat are on the same tenancy agreement you are liable for paying council tax, no matter what he or the tenancy agreement says.

I don't know what happens if the council finds out but you should ask citizens advice. If I were you I'd be concerned that the council deems the properties to be separate and comes back to you to pay everything owed for the duration of your tenacy. Obviously the total tax due for individual flats will be significantly higher than the total paid for the building as a single property and you may have to pay your share. Since you are responsible for paying council tax you should have made sure you were paying it directly from the start. Unless, as I stated above, you have a flatmate on a different tenancy agreement.

It is illegal this is right. If they find out we will have a perfect case for compensation. We might be exempt from paying council tax soon though

You need to find out if you owe any council tax to date then. If you report him and it's deemed to be a separate property on the eyes of the council they could come after you for the council tax owed. It could be a lot of money depending on how long you've lived there. The councils are pretty ruthless when it comes to unpaid tax. Regardless of the illegal conversion issues, you should have known you were liable from the start if you understood you were renting a separate flat. Any issue between you and the landlord with regards to the tax won't be their problem. Going after him for monies owed will be a separate issue.

this is NOT separate property for the council tax, we already know it. Of course chasing landlord is separate issue.

To clarify things, is what you live in an HMO (do you share any facilities like a kitchen or bathroom with the other residents in the building) or is is a self contained flat in a large building? If it is a self contained flat, are you on the same contract as anybody you live with?

If it's a self contained flat it's not up to you to decide if it is liable for its own council tax. Just because it isn't currently registered as a separate property with the council doesn't mean it shouldn't be. It's up to HMRCs Valuation Office to determine if council tax applies separately to each flat. How that works with the case of an illegally subdivided building I don't know but you need to ask the question in case council tax liability comes your way and you are left with a hefty bill. I don't know if they can apply that retroactively, you need to check that. If they do apply it retroactively, the hierachy of council tax liability means you will be liable (unless you have a flat mate on a separate agreement in which case it falls back on the landlord).

Before you discovered that the building was illegally subdivided, you should have contacted the council to set up a council tax account - unless, as stated above, someone in your flat is on a separate tenancy agreement. 

CIS

How that works with the case of an illegally subdivided building I don't know but you need to ask the question in case council tax liability comes your way and you are left with a hefty bill.

The legality of it is ignored when making the determination.

CIS

If the attic forms a self contained accommodation or it is let on it's own contract then there is a very good chance that the VOA would deem it as a s3 or an Article 3 dwelling in it's own right. The VOA need to take a look at it and make a determination.

lycane

MaryNB said:

lycane said:

this is NOT separate property for the council tax, we already know it. Of course chasing landlord is separate issue.

To clarify things, is what you live in an HMO (do you share any facilities like a kitchen or bathroom with the other residents in the building) or is is a self contained flat in a large building? If it is a self contained flat, are you on the same contract as anybody you live with?

If it's a self contained flat it's not up to you to decide if it is liable for its own council tax. Just because it isn't currently registered as a separate property with the council doesn't mean it shouldn't be. It's up to HMRCs Valuation Office to determine if council tax applies separately to each flat. How that works with the case of an illegally subdivided building I don't know but you need to ask the question in case council tax liability comes your way and you are left with a hefty bill. I don't know if they can apply that retroactively, you need to check that. If they do apply it retroactively, the hierachy of council tax liability means you will be liable (unless you have a flat mate on a separate agreement in which case it falls back on the landlord).

Before you discovered that the building was illegally subdivided, you should have contacted the council to set up a council tax account - unless, as stated above, someone in your flat is on a separate tenancy agreement. 

it is not HMO , the landlord acts as it is. The Council knows what is happening as one neighbour claimed housing benefits and they visited the house. When you move in you do not know the details and status of the flat and you believe in what is written in the contract.
IF there are any consequences of deliberate misleading by the landlord there will be severe consequences from all the people living in all the house, the legal ones.  We also gathered all the names of previous tenants living in the house as the correspondence is still coming here and landlord collects it. The list is long.

lycane

CIS said:

If the attic forms a self contained accommodation or it is let on it's own contract then there is a very good chance that the VOA would deem it as a s3 or an Article 3 dwelling in it's own right. The VOA need to take a look at it and make a determination.

where do you report it? Should we call council tax department to inform about all the flats here or there is better way?

lycane

CIS said:

How that works with the case of an illegally subdivided building I don't know but you need to ask the question in case council tax liability comes your way and you are left with a hefty bill.

The legality of it is ignored when making the determination.

Can you elaborate on it?

CIS

lycane said:

CIS said:

If the attic forms a self contained accommodation or it is let on it's own contract then there is a very good chance that the VOA would deem it as a s3 or an Article 3 dwelling in it's own right. The VOA need to take a look at it and make a determination.

where do you report it? Should we call council tax department to inform about all the flats here or there is better way?

You can contact the council and ask that they report it to the VOA or contact the VOA directly.

CIS

lycane said:

CIS said:

How that works with the case of an illegally subdivided building I don't know but you need to ask the question in case council tax liability comes your way and you are left with a hefty bill.

The legality of it is ignored when making the determination.

Can you elaborate on it?

The VOA simply look at whether there is an dwelling for council tax purposes - in basic terms,  a unit of accommodation that can be lived in. Whether or not that unit of accommodation is legal or not makes no difference (otherwise any illegally constructed property would escape council tax).

lycane

CIS said:

lycane said:

CIS said:

How that works with the case of an illegally subdivided building I don't know but you need to ask the question in case council tax liability comes your way and you are left with a hefty bill.

The legality of it is ignored when making the determination.

Can you elaborate on it?

The VOA simply look at whether there is an dwelling for council tax purposes - in basic terms,  a unit of accommodation that can be lived in. Whether or not that unit of accommodation is legal or not makes no difference (otherwise any illegally constructed property would escape council tax).

but if it is not safe will they not do anything about it?