Gas Prices up 13% today.......

merchcon55

So at the time the decision was made, seasonal spreads (say from 2011-2017) were so small (under 13%), that spending £1B to upgrade the storage facility was deemed non-economic.

Surely now that seems a terrible decision - but hindsight a wonderful thing as they say.

Just based on a read of this report, it could easily be argued that - at the time - this was the right call.

QrizB

merchcon55 said:

So at the time the decision was made, seasonal spreads (say from 2011-2017) were so small (under 13%), that spending £1B to upgrade the storage facility was deemed non-economic.
Surely now that seems a terrible decision - but hindsight a wonderful thing as they say.
Just based on a read of this report, it could easily be argued that - at the time - this was the right call.

I thought the report was interesting and I'm glad that others have too!

merchcon55

Always appreciate learning new things

A quick question re heat pumps: Does one require a heat pump unit for each room (as you would do air conditioning units)?
I watched a couple of quick videos and on each one it appeared, on the inside of the room is an "air dispersing outlet" - which could be used, I suppose, for AC or for Heat. But it is for one room and one room only.

Are there heat pumps designed, to replace existing CENTRAL HEATING boiler, so that THE ENTIRE HOUSE is heated by the ONE UNIT?  Thanks

QrizB

merchcon55 said:

Always appreciate learning new things

A quick question re heat pumps: Does one require a heat pump unit for each room (as you would do air conditioning units)?
I watched a couple of quick videos and on each one it appeared, on the inside of the room is an "air dispersing outlet" - which could be used, I suppose, for AC or for Heat. But it is for one room and one room only.

Are there heat pumps designed, to replace existing CENTRAL HEATING boiler, so that THE ENTIRE HOUSE is heated by the ONE UNIT?  Thanks

Yes and no. Sorry

• You can get heat pumps that produce hot water, just like a gas boiler does. These can feed radiators and a hot water tank, just like a gas boiler does. The downside is that the hotter the water, the less efficient the heat pump is so usually it's advisable to fit larger radiators and a larger HW tank, so you can run the system a bit cooler.
  
• Or you can set the same sort of heat pump up to produce warm, but not hot, water. This is more efficient. Conventional radiators don't work so well with warm water so you might need fanned radiators or, better still, wet underfloor heating. For hot water you can tell the heat pump to run hotter than usual once or twice a day and heat the tank.
• Or you can forget about making hot water with your heat pump at all. In this case you use the heat pump to directly heat air, using one of the wall mounted units you've seen. You then need another way to make hot water; an immersion heater, instantaneous electric water heater or even a dedicated heat pump hot water cylinder.
• The logical progression of that final system is "central air" as seen in many US homes but very few UK ones, where there's a single air handling unit that makes hot or cold air and then directs it by a series of ducts to the rooms as required. Not an easy retrofit, as you might imagine.
  

Sea_Shell

Oh blimey, we really will be back to the 70s and warm air central heating.

Didn't everyone rip them out? 😉

biscan25

Do we think it is actually supply and demand fundamentals changing these future prices, or some kind of trading machinations?

phillw

QrizB said:
Or you can forget about making hot water with your heat pump at all. In this case you use the heat pump to directly heat air, using one of the wall mounted units you've seen. You then need another way to make hot water; an immersion heater, instantaneous electric water heater or even a dedicated heat pump hot water cylinder.

Solar thermal water heater panels might become cost effective soon.

phillw

biscan25 said:

Do we think it is actually supply and demand fundamentals changing these future prices, or some kind of trading machinations?

It's a combination of multiple factors.

The ifa1 interconnector fire, companies producing gas going bankrupt due to the pandemic, return to normal demand after the pandemic & maybe the russians aren't our friends....

I think there have been some gas pipeline accidents too.

It's irrelevant though, gas prices are up & nothing you can do.

chris1973

I made enquiries about having a woodburner fitted recently. The first few installers I found were booked up until next summer. I wonder why!. Perhaps petrol stations need to start rolling out Esso Blue pumps again.

merchcon55

QrizB said:

merchcon55 said:

Always appreciate learning new things

A quick question re heat pumps: Does one require a heat pump unit for each room (as you would do air conditioning units)?
I watched a couple of quick videos and on each one it appeared, on the inside of the room is an "air dispersing outlet" - which could be used, I suppose, for AC or for Heat. But it is for one room and one room only.

Are there heat pumps designed, to replace existing CENTRAL HEATING boiler, so that THE ENTIRE HOUSE is heated by the ONE UNIT?  Thanks

Yes and no. Sorry

• You can get heat pumps that produce hot water, just like a gas boiler does. These can feed radiators and a hot water tank, just like a gas boiler does. The downside is that the hotter the water, the less efficient the heat pump is so usually it's advisable to fit larger radiators and a larger HW tank, so you can run the system a bit cooler.
  
• Or you can set the same sort of heat pump up to produce warm, but not hot, water. This is more efficient. Conventional radiators don't work so well with warm water so you might need fanned radiators or, better still, wet underfloor heating. For hot water you can tell the heat pump to run hotter than usual once or twice a day and heat the tank.
• Or you can forget about making hot water with your heat pump at all. In this case you use the heat pump to directly heat air, using one of the wall mounted units you've seen. You then need another way to make hot water; an immersion heater, instantaneous electric water heater or even a dedicated heat pump hot water cylinder.
• The logical progression of that final system is "central air" as seen in many US homes but very few UK ones, where there's a single air handling unit that makes hot or cold air and then directs it by a series of ducts to the rooms as required. Not an easy retrofit, as you might imagine.
  

Please don't be sorry - a very informative reply.

Points 1 and 2 - I knew a bit about this. Basically you keep your existing central heating piping system, but you will probably need to replace EVERY radiator and get a much bigger HW Tank. All in all, very cost prohibitive for most, as this is the "add on cost" after installing the actual heat pump.

Point 3: while dearer to heat the HW via immersion heater, at least no added installation costs - everything exists and you get to use your existing HW tank

Point 4: Being American the "hot air" ducting system is what I was very familiar with before coming here to UK - in fact, I had never really heard of the concept of "wet heating systems via hot water". Either you had hot air, or still common in New York City STEAM heating (when you see in the movies steam coming out of the manhole covers in the street - that's what it is - steam used for heating).

I want to start investigating the idea of having individual units in each room - similar to the way American homes can easily have multiple air conditioning units. I guess one could set up a programmer to turn on units at a given time, much like a normal central heating system.