Used car compensation for " repairs"

whatsthenews

Hi. 
Used car purchased in March

Advertised as tuned Stage 3. Videos provided of car being driven on the road. 
Sold with vehicle registration ,MOT from Oct 2020 and 1 yrs warranty.
AA approved dealer.

Vehicle failed it's MOT on absence of cat and emissions. Vehicle as built had 2 cats.

Contacted dealer re them paying for costs of  "repairs" to a non legal road car. They stated that they sold the car as a " track " car, but as a "goodwill gesture ", they might  consider paying something towards the cost of fitting a used cat, as the car was a used vehicle.
We briefly disputed their statement that it was sold as a track car, but then focused on getting the car through its MOT.

The only place they mention the term " track car"  is on the top of the invoice. There's no mention of that term on the 2 adverts that we've located online. 
Re the modifications, the adverts state Stage 3, and there is a large paragraph  that describes what modifications  the company who we know carried out the mods may make  to the exhaust system at the various stages.
 This  includes removal of the first cat and then removal of 2nd cat with EITHER replacement with a sports cat OR a decat.
There isn't anything specific saying what work was carried out to this vehicle..
Our argument is that given the evidence above, it wasn't reasonable to assume that the car was road legal. 
As I said, they're AA approved and pride themselves on excellent customer service and transparency. They have good customer reviews. 
Looking to appeal to them to pay  for the full cost of the work which was between £ 1-2k, plus reasonable  expenses and wondering what people though from a consumer rights view? 

Link to some info re modifications, track cars etc and MOT testing from the DVSA here ghttps://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/when-is-a-modified-vehicle-a-rally-car/

whatsthenews

Sorry, that should read " it wasn't unreasonable to assume the car was road legal"

TonyMMM

whatsthenews said:

Re the modifications, the adverts state Stage 3, and there is a large paragraph  that describes what modifications  the company who we know carried out the mods may make  to the exhaust system at the various stages.
 This  includes removal of the first cat and then removal of 2nd cat with EITHER replacement with a sports cat OR a decat.

And when you were looking at the car before buying, what specifically did you ask about this and what exactly did they say ?  You case will probably hinge on that.

From what you say, it would be quite a leap to assume that a car with that level of tuning is going to be road legal.

How much have they offered to pay towards adding a cat ?   

The legal process would be to issue an LBA (Letter Before Action) and then use the small claims procedure to claim back your actual losses, but from what you've said winning isn't going to be a certainty. 

whatsthenews

The assumption made was that a vehicle advertised and sold with registration plates in situ was road legal. In that case ,would it be considered reasonable, considering they provided 2019 and 2020 MOT certificates both carried out during their ownership, that the buyer should have asked if the vehicle was road legal? Or, on the other hand, that the seller should have disclosed the absence of a cat? 
Plus, how does the fact that the car wasn't described as a track vehicle  in any advert  and the dealer didn't list the actual modifications affect the situation? If the vehicle had been advertised  as such, presented without either vehicle reg' plates or MOT,then it would have been completely reasonable to expect that it wasn't road legal. 

whatsthenews

whatsthenews said:

The assumption made was that a vehicle advertised and sold with registration plates in situ was road legal. In that case ,would it be considered reasonable, considering they provided 2019 and 2020 MOT certificates both carried out during their ownership, that the buyer should have asked if the vehicle was road legal? Or, on the other hand, that the seller should have disclosed the absence of a cat? 
Plus, how does the fact that the car wasn't described as a track vehicle  in any advert  and the dealer didn't list the actual modifications affect the situation? If the vehicle had been advertised  as such, presented without either vehicle reg' plates or MOT,then it would have been completely reasonable to expect that it wasn't road legal. 

apologies. They haven't offered any amount . When we disputed the track vehicle tack, they reiterated the track vehicle description and  that they may consider paying something towards fitting  a used cat. We haven't approached them since. 

ItsComingRome

The very first google result says

There is no consistent difference in part makers between their classifications of stage 1 stage 2 and stage 3 mods.  The tuning industry use these terms but what do they mean and what can you expect from each of them? For some companies STAGE 1 - Cheapest options STAGE 2 - Pay us more money and get more power STAGE 3 - Pay loads of money and we'll build a track car!

It sounds to me that they did, indirectly, state that this was a track car.  You should, at least, have approached this purchase with caution.

whatsthenews

From what you say, it would be quite a leap to assume that a car with that level of tuning is going to be road legal.

 
As per the info provided in their adverts, a  Stage 3 tuned vehicle may or may not have a cat. If it's road legal, which the majority of the information suggested it was , it had to have a cat. Even competition rally cars that are allowed to pass an MOT despite the absence of factory fitted items eg rear seats etc, have to have a cat and pass the emissions test. 

whatsthenews

ItsComingRome said:

The very first google result says

There is no consistent difference in part makers between their classifications of stage 1 stage 2 and stage 3 mods.  The tuning industry use these terms but what do they mean and what can you expect from each of them? For some companies STAGE 1 - Cheapest options STAGE 2 - Pay us more money and get more power STAGE 3 - Pay loads of money and we'll build a track car!

It sounds to me that they did, indirectly, state that this was a track car.  You should, at least, have approached this purchase with caution.

Mmm, that's a very technical description of the 3 stages.
Stage 3 isn't synonymous with " track car" ,  no cat or  not road legal . The info in the sellers  adverts states that stage 3 mods carried out by the company who carried out the mods/ tuning may involve complete removal of both cats or replacement of the second cat with a sports cat. 
I don't really think our approach to buying it is relevant at this stage. I'd be curious to know what they would have said if we'd asked if it had a cat. Afterall, saying no would have been admitting they were trying to sell a road registered vehicle that wasn't road legal. 

ItsComingRome

whatsthenews said:

From what you say, it would be quite a leap to assume that a car with that level of tuning is going to be road legal.

 
As per the info provided in their adverts, a  Stage 3 tuned vehicle may or may not have a cat. If it's road legal, which the majority of the information suggested it was , it had to have a cat. Even competition rally cars that are allowed to pass an MOT despite the absence of factory fitted items eg rear seats etc, have to have a cat and pass the emissions test. 

What suggested it was road legal?  It having an MOT is not an indication of that, nor is it having reg plates, or it being driven on the road.

It was stated as having "stage 3 modifications" which, if you didn't understand what that meant, should have been researched before purchase. There is no need for them to put "THIS IS NOT ROAD LEGAL" all over the ad, it is up to you to research what they said in the ad (Stage 3 mods) or ask questions about it.

whatsthenews

ItsComingRome said:

whatsthenews said:

From what you say, it would be quite a leap to assume that a car with that level of tuning is going to be road legal.

 
As per the info provided in their adverts, a  Stage 3 tuned vehicle may or may not have a cat. If it's road legal, which the majority of the information suggested it was , it had to have a cat. Even competition rally cars that are allowed to pass an MOT despite the absence of factory fitted items eg rear seats etc, have to have a cat and pass the emissions test. 

What suggested it was road legal?  It having an MOT is not an indication of that, nor is it having reg plates, or it being driven on the road.

It was stated as having "stage 3 modifications" which, if you didn't understand what that meant, should have been researched before purchase. There is no need for them to put "THIS IS NOT ROAD LEGAL" all over the ad, it is up to you to research what they said in the ad (Stage 3 mods) or ask questions about it.

We're going to have to agree to disagree.
If they say they were selling it as a track car (which judging by  their response to our email in their book means missing both cats), then why didn't they clearly list the exact modifications the car had in the ad's, plus why did they provide 2 MOTs? 
 I'm trying to look at this from a consumer rights perspective,as opposed to a car enthusiasts. 
As I said ( and you said) ,there is no accepted meaning to the tuning stages. I just googled and another company are saying it's not until  Stage 4 that a vehicle becomes  a non road legal track car. 

ItsComingRome

whatsthenews said:

ItsComingRome said:

whatsthenews said:

From what you say, it would be quite a leap to assume that a car with that level of tuning is going to be road legal.

 
As per the info provided in their adverts, a  Stage 3 tuned vehicle may or may not have a cat. If it's road legal, which the majority of the information suggested it was , it had to have a cat. Even competition rally cars that are allowed to pass an MOT despite the absence of factory fitted items eg rear seats etc, have to have a cat and pass the emissions test. 

What suggested it was road legal?  It having an MOT is not an indication of that, nor is it having reg plates, or it being driven on the road.

It was stated as having "stage 3 modifications" which, if you didn't understand what that meant, should have been researched before purchase. There is no need for them to put "THIS IS NOT ROAD LEGAL" all over the ad, it is up to you to research what they said in the ad (Stage 3 mods) or ask questions about it.

We're going to have to agree to disagree.
If they say they were selling it as a track car (which judging by  their response to our email in their book means missing both cats), then why didn't they clearly list the exact modifications the car had in the ad's, plus why did they provide 2 MOTs? 
 I'm trying to look at this from a consumer rights perspective,as opposed to a car enthusiasts. 
As I said ( and you said) ,there is no accepted meaning to the tuning stages. I just googled and another company are saying it's not until  Stage 4 that a vehicle becomes  a non road legal track car. 

They sold it as having stage 3 modifications, which basic research appears to be what constitutes a track car.  Them providing 2 MOT's doesn't mean much, an MOT only means it was road legal at the time the MOT was done.  It doesn't mean it's road legal now.  This is basic knowledge for any driver.

I'd accept that if you bought the car from a general car dealership like say, Arnold Clark, that there would be more of a general belief that the car is just an everyday road car (despite its flashy looks.) If you bought from a firm specialising in rice burners it's caveat emptor.