Two leasehold flats in house - informal agreements re external work

Cliveclive13

Hello all

To briefly summarize the situation regarding a flat we're potentially interested in:

150 years ago - house built on grounds of other house, so leasehold with peppercorn ground rent
70 years ago - house divided into two flats

Present occupant has been in flat for 25 years.  Occupant of other flat been there 20 years.  They know each other well, and have been dealing with external work informally (painting, roof work etc) and splitting the bills.  Discussed this a bit, and they seemed to suggest that while the lease was clear about the responsibilities for internal work, it didn't specify how external work should be dealt with. (though this seems odd to me - surely this would have been dealt with when the spit into two flats was done?)

We're trying to work out how much of an issue this is.  We believe what we're being told that the relationship is amicable, but of course there's no guarantee it will stay that way if we moved in (while we are lovely of course) and even if it did the occupant of the other flat could move out and be replaced by the most unreasonable person in the world the day after we move in!

Does anyone have any advice/thoughts?  How would we go about fixing this?  Does it need fixing?  Would this cause problems getting a mortgage?  Any advice greatly appreciated.

NameUnavailable

What exactly does the lease say about maintenance?

canaldumidi

1) read the lease

2) go and speak to the other leaseholder.

How long is the lease? Built 150 years ago with, maybe, a 199 year lease, = 49 years remaining.......

bbat

Whatever the leaseholders have agreed between them to date, the lease should explain how it should be split. It would be strange if this wasnt covered in the lease.

eddddy

If the leases don't specify adequate provisions for repairing and maintaining the buildings, there are 2 ways of getting the leases changed to sort that out:

• All the parties involved (i.e. the freeholder and the two leaseholders) can informally agree on the terms for repairs and maintenance, and the leases can be varied (changed).  Any changes would need 100% agreement from all 3 parties. If either/both leaseholders has a mortgage, the mortgage lender(s) would need to agree as well.

• Or, any one party (e.g. the freeholder or just one leaseholder) could apply to a tribunal to get the leases changed (varied). Other parties cannot prevent this from happening, and neither can mortgage lenders 

Here's a bit of info about applying to a tribunal for this:

An individual party to a lease can make an application to a First-tier Tribunal (Property Chamber) to vary the lease under the provisions of Part 4 Section 35 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987. However the grounds for a compulsory lease variation are limited. The grounds under which you can make an application are:

• The lease has inadequate provisions relating to the repair/maintenance of the flat or building.
• ....

Link: https://www.lease-advice.org/faq/in-what-circumstances-can-i-apply-to-the-first-tier-tribunal-property-chamber-to-vary-my-lease/

Cliveclive13

Thanks all.  We're told the lease has about 930 years left, so no problem there.

Eddddy, thanks for the info, that's really useful.  I agree with everyone that it would be odd if the detail isn't in the lease, but the present owner seemed to think it wasn't.  We'll probably proceed a bit so we can  get a look at the lease to see what the actual situation is. 

MovingForwards

Why not buy a copy of the deeds now, see what they say and then make an informed decision rather than getting partway through the conveyancing to find out:
https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/copies-of-deeds

eddddy

Cliveclive13 said:

Thanks all.  We're told the lease has about 930 years left, so no problem there.

Eddddy, thanks for the info, that's really useful.  I agree with everyone that it would be odd if the detail isn't in the lease, but the present owner seemed to think it wasn't.  We'll probably proceed a bit so we can  get a look at the lease to see what the actual situation is. 

I agree that the details probably are in the lease.

But if they're not in the lease, and you're buying with a mortgage, I suspect the mortgage lender won't lend unless the lease is changed first.



Maybe the most likely situation is that the details are in the lease - but for simplicity, speed and to keep costs low, the leaseholders just get stuff done between them.

So, for example, if the gutter needs fixing - one of the leaseholders finds a tradesperson and gets a quote of, say, £300 - the leaseholders just agree to pay £150 each.

But if one leaseholders was difficult and refused to pay - things would have to be done "officially" as required by the lease and the law - which might take longer and work out more expensive.

user1977

MovingForwards said:

Why not buy a copy of the deeds

Or (given this is a money-saving site...) ask the vendor to give you a copy of the deeds.