Gaining control over my pension

DeadlyD

dunstonh said:

Royal London, like most intermediary providers, has no problem accepting insistent clients. 

But they won’t accept without an IFA underwriting the transfer and from my understanding gained on the forum is IFAs won’t do this due to the liability risk and indeed the insurance declarations. Right? Or did I miss something. 

Malthusian

DeadlyD said:

But they won’t accept without an IFA underwriting the transfer and from my understanding gained on the forum is IFAs won’t do this due to the liability risk and indeed the insurance declarations. Right? Or did I miss something. 

Nope, you haven't missed anything.

People are saying "X and Y won't accept insistent clients" when technically they should say "X and Y won't accept DIY insistent clients" - and since there is no other kind because it is apparently virtually impossible to be an advised insistent client, people don't bother saying "DIY" because they're the only kind of insistent client who exist.

In theory it is possible to advise clients on an insistent client basis (I or somebody else has told you not to do this but since you insist, here is the best way of doing it). The FCA even has a set of rules on how to do it (COBS 9.5A). But it seems that nobody will do it because it is viewed as an inevitable complaint and impossible to get insurance.

dunstonh

DeadlyD said:

dunstonh said:

Royal London, like most intermediary providers, has no problem accepting insistent clients. 

But they won’t accept without an IFA underwriting the transfer and from my understanding gained on the forum is IFAs won’t do this due to the liability risk and indeed the insurance declarations. Right? Or did I miss something. 

Malthusian has answered it.

I will just expand that there is a risk when looking at webpages designed for advisers or by providers that use intermediaries for their business.  They will write the information for their target audience.  That is why so many of those sites have a warning come up that the content is aimed at advisers and not consumers.

When an adviser places business with a provider, the vast majority do not ask whether it is an insistent client basis.  They just ask if it is advised or non-advised.  If the latter, then some wont allow it at all or they will just note it (and maybe restrict in the case of ETFs or other certain instruments).   The fact an adviser is placing the business means the adviser is responsible.  The provider will not be responsible. 

So, when Royal London, for example, has a webpage that talks about insistent clients, it is doing it on the basis that it is advisers that are reading it.  Not a consumer hoping to do DIY business elsewhere.

DeadlyD

Nope, you haven't missed anything.

People are saying "X and Y won't accept insistent clients" when technically they should say "X and Y won't accept DIY insistent clients" - and since there is no other kind because it is apparently virtually impossible to be an advised insistent client, people don't bother saying "DIY" because they're the only kind of insistent client who exist.

In theory it is possible to advise clients on an insistent client basis (I or somebody else has told you not to do this but since you insist, here is the best way of doing it). The FCA even has a set of rules on how to do it (COBS 9.5A). But it seems that nobody will do it because it is viewed as an inevitable complaint and impossible to get insurance.

I am back to the original problem.
IFA can’t give me a guarantee on a positive recommendation until I’ve spent £4 -£6k dependent on company. Chances are are will be insistent and no way of transferring. 

Hmm 

dunstonh

IFA can’t give me a guarantee on a positive recommendation until I’ve spent £4 -£6k dependent on company.

Which is, of course, logical and sensible.  

Chances are are will be insistent and no way of transferring.

Statistically, that has always been the case.   From the peak where 9 out of 10 cases were considered best leaving it in the scheme a few decades ago to the current level which is around 6 out of 10 cases.   You are hoping to be in the 4 out of 10 rather than the 6 out of 10.

Diplodicus

dunstonh said:

IFA can’t give me a guarantee on a positive recommendation until I’ve spent £4 -£6k dependent on company.

Which is, of course, logical and sensible.  

Chances are are will be insistent and no way of transferring.

Statistically, that has always been the case.   From the peak where 9 out of 10 cases were considered best leaving in the scheme a few decades ago to the current level which is around 6 out of 10 cases.   You are hoping to be in the 4 out of 10 rather than the 6 out of 10.

Hoping is right. The ability to transfer depends on whether the IFA gives a thumbs up or down.

DeadlyD

Diplodicus said:

dunstonh said:

IFA can’t give me a guarantee on a positive recommendation until I’ve spent £4 -£6k dependent on company.

Which is, of course, logical and sensible.  

Chances are are will be insistent and no way of transferring.

Statistically, that has always been the case.   From the peak where 9 out of 10 cases were considered best leaving in the scheme a few decades ago to the current level which is around 6 out of 10 cases.   You are hoping to be in the 4 out of 10 rather than the 6 out of 10.

Hoping is right. The ability to transfer depends on whether the IFA gives a thumbs up or down.

BUT after spending £4 - £6k which I do think is rather a lot No? I do know the work is extensive but surely an experienced IFA could provide a certain level advise but this facility to do the right thing to
assist has been taken away from them

Diplodicus

They can offer abridged advice but the only indications they can make are “don’t transfer” or “unclear.” I think you have had a couple of indications already from advisers that a positive rec would be unlikely. If the indication at the analysis stage is “unclear”, you would have to roll the dice again and commit to the full fee. You’re right, it is a lot of money:- 6 to 8 years of energy price rises swallowed up at once. Then, if the recommendation is not to transfer, you would feel cheated.

DeadlyD

Diplodicus said:

They can offer abridged advice but the only indications they can make are “don’t transfer” or “unclear.” I think you have had a couple of indications already from advisers that a positive rec would be unlikely. If the indication at the analysis stage is “unclear”, you would have to roll the dice again and commit to the full fee. You’re right, it is a lot of money:- 6 to 8 years of energy price rises swallowed up at once. Then, if the recommendation is not to transfer, you would feel cheated.

Hi there everyone by way of update, I've had a couple of calls, a lot of form filling in with salary, expenditure, personal details, why I want to transfer, attitude to risk etc then a call, that I can only describe as very personal, challenging and what felt like an insult to my intelligence that I may not manage on less expenditure than I am used to. As if I am not capable of understanding that impact as a high earner, the  FA 's words not mine, I may not be able to reduce my expenditure expectations! I am capable of making a decision on my own finances but I carried on with gritted teeth. I feel many personal assumptions are made in this profession and they do appear judgmental, which I'm training re-asserts that judgment is not appropriate so hey ho! Bottom line is they will provide an abridged service for free. So I will keep you posted. This exercise is worse than finding a therapist.   

Diplodicus

The process has broken down. Sorry.

As you know, abridged advice can only be "do not transfer" or "unclear." 

Your best outcome would be a recommendation to transfer on full advice following "unclear" abridged advice.

Second best would be abridged advice not to transfer, saving you 4/6 thousand pounds.

Third best would be a recommendation not to transfer on full advice following abridged advice.


Unfortunately, the third outcome is far the most likely.
You may improve the odds by putting yourself in the shoes of the adviser and trying to give him what he wants.. 
90% of new customers sign up for ongoing advice; but that doesn't mean you have to stick it or the funds they they put you in. 

Once you are sprung, the field is yours!