Gaining control over my pension

DeadlyD

One of the "intermediary providers" as  mentioned here?

@xylophone .. I’ve been told that the only fund that will accept an insistent client is Ipension 
https://www.ipensionsgroup.com/

xylophone

 I’ve been told that the only fund that will accept an insistent client is Ipension 

Only pension provider?

That doesn't accord with

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78660944/#Comment_78660944

DeadlyD

xylophone said:

 I’ve been told that the only fund that will accept an insistent client is Ipension 

Only pension provider?

That doesn't accord with

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78660944/#Comment_78660944

That’s what the IFAs are telling me. Am I right in assuming because they are transferring an insistent client they attach themselves to one fund provider. The issue is finding an IFA that will transfer an insistent client - right? Funds will accept but IFAs will not transfer due to the liability. 

xylophone

That’s what the IFAs are telling me. Am I right in assuming because they are transferring an insistent client they attach themselves to one fund provider. The issue is finding an IFA that will transfer an insistent client - right? Funds will accept but IFAs will not transfer due to the liability. 

You refer to "Funds" - you mean "pension provider"?

Dunston said

Royal London, like most intermediary providers, has no problem accepting insistent clients. 

There was then discussion concerning the fact that providers like RL would require any  transfer to go via an adviser (but finding an adviser would be difficult ).

Your adviser (from Headway) has told you

Headway outsource to PAS 
PAS provides certificate (recommended or not) 
Headway facilitates transfer as an insistent client to Ipension 

 Then Headway (your adviser) acts as  a link to  pension provider ipensions (Headway's chosen  partner)?

Has Headway (or will Headway)  confirm in writing all details of the proposed arrangement   (fee/ reference to Pension Transfer Specialist/guarantee that regardless of recommendation from PTS, they will " place the business") see

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6301481/gaining-control-over-my-pension/p8

with ipensions?

Headway can confirm that they will accept responsibility/liability for the transfer as it would appear from post above that the provider (ipensions) won't? 

And should this transfer go through, have you checked all the details of the pension to which it would be transferred?

For example, would you be paying for on going advice?

If you were unhappy  with the new pension, would there be fees/penalties for transfer out?

If you stuck with it, what would be the administration fees?

Would there be a charge for drawdown etc etc....?.

Of course it could be the case that the PTS will recommend the transfer - if so, what then?

And if he doesn't, will it make you think twice about a transfer out?

DeadlyD

xylophone said:

You refer to "Funds" - you mean "pension provider"? DD -  Yes

Your adviser (from Headway) has told you

Headway outsource to PAS  - DD  - Yes 
PAS provides certificate (recommended or not) - DD  - Yes
Headway facilitates transfer as an insistent client to Ipension - DD -  Correct

 Then Headway (your adviser) acts as  a link to  pension provider ipensions (Headway's chosen  partner)? DD  - Correct 

Has Headway (or will Headway)  confirm in writing all details of the proposed arrangement   (fee/ reference to Pension Transfer Specialist/guarantee that regardless of recommendation from PTS, they will " place the business") see -

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6301481/gaining-control-over-my-pension/p8

with ipensions? - Correct 

Headway can confirm that they will accept responsibility/liability for the transfer as it would appear from post above that the provider (ipensions) won't? - DD - Correct 

And should this transfer go through, have you checked all the details of the pension to which it would be transferred?

For example, would you be paying for on going advice? DD - Yes 1%  

If you were unhappy  with the new pension, would there be fees/penalties for transfer out? £500 & IFA (Headway) has to provide reasons for transfer .... 

If you stuck with it, what would be the administration fees?.. DD- platform fees are 0.35% 

Would there be a charge for drawdown etc etc....?. - DD - Haven't asked about drawdown but I have been sent details of Ipension, but don't understand all the detail.. I have read through the drawdown section and can't see that any fees are applicable apart from taxation 

Of course it could be the case that the PTS will recommend the transfer - if so, what then? 

DD - indeed and I haven't considered this scenario fully, However today I have had a further discussion with the previous IFA  and they advise me the abridged service which I was just about to commit to (until I talked to Headway)  that they will only advise either against transfer or recommend to go ahead. I do feel "safer" with these advisors as the would take my L&G workplace as the preferred to transfer the DB into. And sadly I am coming to the conclusion that if the advise if not to move, regardless of the fact it is in my best interests and would have a very negative impact on my life there doesn't seem to be any alternative. 

And if he doesn't, will it make you think twice about a transfer out? DD - Yes 

Hi I have answered above as DD - to each question. Thank you for taking time to consider my situation. 

xylophone

they advise me the abridged service which I was just about to commit to (until I talked to Headway)  that they will only advise either against transfer or recommend to go ahead. I do feel "safer" with these advisors as the would take my L&G workplace as the preferred to transfer the DB into. 

Recommend to go ahead -  does this IFA  ( the one offering free "abridged advice") mean that he would indicate that the position was unclear as in link below (and previously discussed)? 


https://www.ftadviser.com/pension-freedom/2020/07/02/how-will-abridged-advice-work/

He would then offer full advice (£3000) and if his recommendation  was to transfer, he would  facilitate the transfer to your current workplace pension with L&G (or another pension of your choosing)?

If the recommendation  was not positive, he would not agree to act as an intermediary with another pension provider?

(L&G have produced a booklet (Your  guide to pension transfers) which makes it clear that where the pension to be transferred

 has benefits that are classed as safeguarded benefits; 

- ..... a defined benefit pension scheme (also known as ‘final salary’); 

-........... a guaranteed annuity rate (GAR); 

- ............. a guaranteed minimum pension (GMP); 

........... invested in a with profits fund. 

.........Legal & General will only accept a transfer payment ....... if you have received financial advice, and the outcome of this advice was a recommendation to transfer. 

If you decide not to explore the possibility of a transfer out, you do have other options (as previously discussed) although you do not regard them as favourably?

DeadlyD

xylophone said:

Recommend to go ahead -  does this IFA  ( the one offering free "abridged advice") mean that he would indicate that the position was unclear as in link below (and previously discussed)? 
DD - I asked him about this "unclear" advise as discussed on the forum and he said it was a waste fof time, it would be his decision and he would tell me. 
Lets see.. I guess I can't argue with that. 

https://www.ftadviser.com/pension-freedom/2020/07/02/how-will-abridged-advice-work/

He would then offer full advice (£3000) and if his recommendation  was to transfer, he would  facilitate the transfer to your current workplace pension with L&G (or another pension of your choosing)? DD - thats correct

If the recommendation  was not positive, he would not agree to act as an intermediary with another pension provider? DD - Correct they would not take on 

(L&G have produced a booklet (Your  guide to pension transfers) which makes it clear that where the pension to be transferred

 has benefits that are classed as safeguarded benefits; 

- ..... a defined benefit pension scheme (also known as ‘final salary’); 

-........... a guaranteed annuity rate (GAR); 

- ............. a guaranteed minimum pension (GMP); 

........... invested in a with profits fund. 

.........Legal & General will only accept a transfer payment ....... if you have received financial advice, and the outcome of this advice was a recommendation to transfer. 

If you decide not to explore the possibility of a transfer out, you do have other options (as previously discussed) although you do not regard them as favourably? 

DD - I think the only option is to take the % payment upfront tax free at some point. The IFA's view was that due to my income currently that I would not be capable of re-adjusting my lifestyle to live on 1/2 of what our monthly expenditure is. Which is rather insulting as I being in a Sales position which is highly unpredictable given the nature of performance management that I would earn this high salary for any extended period. It does mean that I would have little choice but to continue in a high pressured role for another 5 years, again lifestyle issues. Rather than my preferred which I've spent the last 5 years aiming towards of taking the DB transfer, managing that along with my other pensions, more volunteering which I do at weekends for a UK charity, supplementing a low drawdown with part time work locally rather than travelling as I do now and caring for my elderly parents. I feel robbed of being able to control my own destiny as a consequence of the situation with corrupt financial advice and the regulations that are shutting down the possibility to flexibly transfer given a disclaimer. 

I doubt I will get a recommendation as it appears to me that I would have to be on my death bed to prove its in my best interest. This change in the situation with insurance liability is forcing me to investigate a different route which seems on the surface concerning... 

Morning! but of a long answer and thank you! 

Linton

DeadlyD said:

DD - I think the only option is to take the % payment upfront tax free at some point. The IFA's view was that due to my income currently that I would not be capable of re-adjusting my lifestyle to live on 1/2 of what our monthly expenditure is. Which is rather insulting as I being in a Sales position which is highly unpredictable given the nature of performance management that I would earn this high salary for any extended period. It does mean that I would have little choice but to continue in a high pressured role for another 5 years, again lifestyle issues. Rather than my preferred which I've spent the last 5 years aiming towards of taking the DB transfer, managing that along with my other pensions, more volunteering which I do at weekends for a UK charity, supplementing a low drawdown with part time work locally rather than travelling as I do now and caring for my elderly parents. I feel robbed of being able to control my own destiny as a consequence of the situation with corrupt financial advice and the regulations that are shutting down the possibility to flexibly transfer given a disclaimer. 

I doubt I will get a recommendation as it appears to me that I would have to be on my death bed to prove its in my best interest. This change in the situation with insurance liability is forcing me to investigate a different route which seems on the surface concerning... .....

I dont see the IFAs failure to accept that you could happily live with half your current expenditure as insultng.  The question is evidence.  If you had been doing this for the past few years whilst saving for an early retirement perhaps your case would have been stronger. If the IFA had just accepted your assurance and the reduced expenditure proved to be difficult you could have a  reasonable cause to complain.  However that is the past.

Being on your death bed is perhaps a little extreme - is there any medical evidence that can be used?

Is there any option of taking on a less well paid and less stressful job now and live on the reduced expenditure?

Marcon

DeadlyD said:

Every FA I have spoken to gives me cause for concern, their attitude, lack of professionalism, arrogance and misogyny is really worrying. I don't trust any of them. When I discuss, the position of parting with £000's of cash, before I can receive a recommendation, most are quite dismissive that I am going into this with the wrong attitude. the whole process is really insulting. Sorry to rant, but its mind boggling. I am a Sales Professional and these people fill me with horror, no wonder there are such strict regulations. 

By the law of averages you should have stumbled across at least one who knows what they are doing. You might consider the possibility that if 'every' adviser you've spoken to is giving you cause for concern, they could have a point - and are picking up something from your comments/behaviour which is ringing alarm bells in their heads. If you continue to go about things in the way you have been so far, you're going to get nowhere. 

You say you are a sales professional, so think about selling your own desire for advice in a way which is likely to get your preferred outcome. Starting by announcing you want to transfer out as an insistent client (whether you say it directly or obliquely) has already proved a lost cause, so change tack.  

You don't need to be 'on your death bed' to get a positive recommendation to transfer out. Have a look at https://www.pruadviser.co.uk/knowledge-literature/knowledge-library/pension-transfers-conversions/ paying close attention to the section headed Defined Benefit to Defined Contribution Transfer (about halfway through the document - no page numbers on it).

The FCA's guidance (Section 6.2 of their Finalised Guidance 21/3) is also useful reading:

If you recommend a transfer to a client, you should clearly demonstrate, based on contemporary evidence, that this is in their best interests. The client’s best interests are not restricted to financial best interests. For example, a transfer is not suitable for a client just because you can show that it gives them the same or a higher expected income over time. Along with consideration of the client’s financial circumstances, suitability must take into account the client’s knowledge and experience, attitude to transfer risk, ability to bear investment risk and their preferences on the managementof their finances over time. So you need to show how the recommendation meets the client’s needs and objectives as a whole, and why the DB scheme cannot meet them. Similarly, if you advise a client not to transfer, whether after abridged advice or full DB transfer advice, your file should demonstrate why that recommendation was suitable.

xylophone

Then, to sum up the position as discussed in previous posts;-

You've had an informal discussion with SJP (manager of your SIPP) and there was an indication that you would not receive a positive recommendation that would enable the transfer  in of  your DB pension.

You've had a discussion with IFA number one who has offered abridged advice for free and full advice for £3000 - he  can act  for you (or is willing to act) for you in a transfer to L&G (or presumably elsewhere) only if his recommendation is positive.

You've had a discussion with IFA number 2 ( fee £7000) who is prepared to act for you by outsourcing the regulated advice to a PTS and then, should the advice be against a transfer, by acting as an intermediary (thereby taking full responsibility and liability) between you and ipensions who  would open a SIPP to receive the transfer in of your DB pension.

If you decide not to explore the transfer out any further, there may be other options as discussed in this thread?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78652611/#Comment_78652611

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78651395/#Comment_78651395