Gaining control over my pension

Diplodicus

xylophone said:

And another thought, had it occurred to you that even if there were no advice requirement, there could be many providers who simply would not take on a DB transfer? 

That is an interesting hypothetical question; but I thought you were a facts man, xylophone.

And the fact is that a financial adviser intercedes in the process, in every case, whether a transfer follows or not. There he stands, hand outstretched. And a good chunk of his fee is set aside against potential future claims. So it seems to me just and right that advisers, if they are in the market, should bear the liability, rather than squirm away from it. 

DeadlyD

Interestingly I have gained invaluable knowledge from you all and most helpful is stating what the situation is. I agree with you all. On one hand what the actual factual situation is, whereas others point out how impossible it is when faced with a cheque book (do they even exist anymore) in front of these IFA's who either consider you not capable of understanding the FCA rules or they are fed up of explaining and their time is more important to deal with the $$$$$m of other opportunities (they always show off) or they mislead you into spending the cash to gain a suitability report that is negative as an insistent client and you are stuck. Spend £000's (last quote from Pensionhelp is £4k as opposed to £6k from LJFP) with zero practical way of transferring a DB today. Fact? or back to my original question who will take on an insistent client and transfer. Well apprently Duncan from ukpensionhelp does that. WE will see. I am away with work in Europe now so may not take his call until later in the week. 
Keep posting friends but be nice. Or kind. 
DD

xylophone

That is an interesting hypothetical question; but I thought you were a facts man, xylophone.

One may not state facts and pose a hypothetical question?

That's a new one on me!

michael1234

I've learned quite a lot too from your ....ahem.... discussion.

Despite my hybrid pension being 90%-95% a DC pension, the tiny DB "benefit" (huge drawback I would say) means I would have to risk paying thousands to a financial advisor and still I likely wouldn't be able to transfer.

I can only think/hope that new rules or new legislation will improve the situation. I doubt MPs had this situation in mind when they voted to stop people transferring valuable DB pensions. I suspect they wanted the population to have advice but then for the pension holder to make the final decision. I'm usually a pessimist but on this I'm convinced things will improve.

P.S. If I ask for a valulation (CEV is it ?) will I get seperate valuations for both parts of the pension? (Although the DC part is surely obvisous?)

eskbanker

michael1234 said:

I can only think/hope that new rules or new legislation will improve the situation. I doubt MPs had this situation in mind when they voted to stop people transferring valuable DB pensions. I suspect they wanted the population to have advice but then for the pension holder to make the final decision.

That's what I was meaning when originally referring to unintended circumstances (trying not to trigger all the silly stuff that's spilled over from other threads), in that many of the current issues affecting DB transfers (FCA banning contingent charging, providers withdrawing insistent client support, PI insurance market tightening, FCA issuing guidance against DB transfers, etc) have happened since the 2015 legislation, which didn't involve MPs voting to stop DB transfers as such at all. 

Whether or not there will be any changes to legislation or regulation remains to be seen, but I think everyone would agree that the current landscape isn't what legislators in 2015 would have anticipated....

Diplodicus

michael1234 said:

I've learned quite a lot too from your ....ahem.... discussion...I suspect they wanted the population to have advice but then for the pension holder to make the final decision. I'm usually a pessimist but on this I'm convinced things will improve.

Agreed. Things will change, first through sentiment. Considering that a couple of weeks ago (was it)  the usual posters blithely declared the DB pension transfer process to be working as intended, progress is measurable.
 
As someone wiser than us said long ago
”All truth passes through three stages. Firstly it is ridiculed. Secondly it is violently opposed. Thirdly it is accepted as self evident.”

As it stands, the process is untenable.

xylophone

On one hand what the actual factual situation is, whereas others point out how impossible it is when faced with a cheque book (do they even exist anymore) in front of these IFA's who either consider you not capable of understanding the FCA rules or they are fed up of explaining and their time is more important to deal with the $$$$$m of other opportunities (they always show off) or they mislead you into spending the cash to gain a suitability report that is negative as an insistent client and you are stuck. 

Once you've kicked off your shoes at the end of a hectic day and collapsed on the hotel divan, you could enliven your leisure hours with this.

https://www.fca.org.uk/publication/finalised-guidance/fg21-3.pdf

Do  keep us up to date on your progress.

xylophone

P.S. If I ask for a valulation (CEV is it ?) will I get seperate valuations for both parts of the pension? (Although the DC part is surely obvisous?)

You may be interested in this.

https://www.thepensionsregulator.gov.uk/en/trustees/managing-your-hybrid-scheme-

Do you have a Guide for your scheme?

Linton

eskbanker said:

michael1234 said:

I can only think/hope that new rules or new legislation will improve the situation. I doubt MPs had this situation in mind when they voted to stop people transferring valuable DB pensions. I suspect they wanted the population to have advice but then for the pension holder to make the final decision.

That's what I was meaning when originally referring to unintended circumstances (trying not to trigger all the silly stuff that's spilled over from other threads), in that many of the current issues affecting DB transfers (FCA banning contingent charging, providers withdrawing insistent client support, PI insurance market tightening, FCA issuing guidance against DB transfers, etc) have happened since the 2015 legislation, which didn't involve MPs voting to stop DB transfers as such at all. 

Whether or not there will be any changes to legislation or regulation remains to be seen, but I think everyone would agree that the current landscape isn't what legislators in 2015 would have anticipated...

I dont believe the legislators actually agreed on what they wanted to do.  The Lamborghini issue was only picked up relatively late and as far as I remember the question of insistent clients was not discussed at all.  The Labour and Liberal parties wanted protection for those people who through ignorance or scams lose their life savings and some Conservative MPs were all in favour of deregulation.  What was implemented ensured that both sides could claim to have achieved their objective.  Without a compromise the legislation may not have been passed.

And then we have the FCA with its own agenda filling the gaps left by Parliament .

Yes, a mess but I cant see it resolved until either it is decided that freedom is the priority and logically those who choose to ignore advice not to transfer lose protection from the consequences of their own poor investment decisions or that the prospect of significant numbers of voters scraping by on SP after losing a lifetime of savings is too great a price.

Marcon

Diplodicus said:

xylophone said:

And another thought, had it occurred to you that even if there were no advice requirement, there could be many providers who simply would not take on a DB transfer? 

That is an interesting hypothetical question; but I thought you were a facts man, xylophone.

Not hypothetical. This from NEST's website:

'We don’t accept transfers from defined benefit schemes unless they’re early leaver cash transfers or pension credit transfers. The value of the pension pot you’re transferring should be more than £50.'

In other words, they don't normally take DB transfers even if these are under £30K (so no advice would be required).