Estate Agent lied about offer - said offer I got was 150k when the buyer was offering 160k

eddddy

canaldumidi said:

I was referring to your 'contract 1'. The buyer agrees a contact with the seller drawn up by seller's conveyancer with a specified sale price. The EA fee would be based on that price (in your example £150k).

If there is a 2nd backtoback contract, that is nothing to do with the OP/original property owner.

I think we're still not on the same page.

The hypothesis is that when the OP says "estate agent" they mean "quick sale company" or "house buying company" (because they can look very similar to an EA from the outside).  That could explain the £150k/£160k discrepancy.

So the OP is complaining that the "estate agent" is getting £10k on top of any other fees.




But, just to re-iterate there are other possibilities - for example, 2 contracts like this:

Contract 1: The OP is selling a the house to the buyer for £150k
Contract 2: The buyer is paying the estate agent a fee of £10k (they often call it a reservation fee)

So from the buyer's perspective they are paying £160k. From the seller's perspective they are receiving £150k.

(Estate agents who do this kind of thing can sometimes be purposely vague - a buyer might say they are offering £160k, but the EA treats it as an offer of £150k for the house, and £10k for the fees.) 

canaldumidi

OK- but till the OP comes back it's all just guesswork and hypothesis....

AndyParton

 Hi All

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Basically I agreed to sell the house at a target price of 158k on the contract (1) and anything above that is a performance fee to the estate agent so an offer of 160k means 2k performance fee. But he told me I only got an offer of 150k which he got me to accept by email (I trusted him to pass on the correct offer) and then afterwards I asked for the valuation report it was actually valued at 160k!. When I queried this he said you already accepted 150k and became rude and aggressive , but that was on the basis of his lie. He would not let me get out of this and then when I tried to back out of the sale get his solicitors to chase me for the 10k fee on the basis of an abortive sale. He then said I need to re sign the contract(2) for a target price of 150k (as his solicitors told him to do that so it was more legally tight I guess rather then just based on an email) otherwise he was going to chase me for the fee and I would be stuck with a house that was empty (it was a property I was renting out but tenants had left) with mortgage and council tax to pay until the sole selling rights contract ran out and also being chased for a 10k fee. 

So reluctantly I felt forced to resign the contract at a target price of 150k and let him have the 10k fee but after that I found he tried the same scam on others and also I found out that he had been BANNED from estate agent work. He has now been prosecuted by Trading Standards and fined and admitted to scams around performance fees and offences under the fair trading act 2008. 

I intent to take this individual/his company to court and recover my money on the basis he lied to me about offer and the estate agent who signed the 2nd contract is BANNED from estate work and get the contract voided, the original contact for 158k was signed by someone else at the estate agency and not someone who was banned and on that basis I should have only paid 2k performance fee.

But I was wondering if there any other offences that an Estate Agent can commit if he has told someone the incorrect offer , as I expect they should tell you exactly what the buyer is offering you?

Caz3121

AndyParton said:

 I asked for the valuation report it was actually valued at 160k!. 

how do you know that the buyer offered £160k? many buyers will offer less than the valuation

AndyParton

it was definitely 160k as when I got the documents from the solicitors they had given me the sale price was listed as 160k.

canaldumidi

Still sounds very strange....

AndyParton said:

 ... I agreed to sell the house at a target price of 158k on the contract (1) and anything above that is a performance fee to the estate agent so an offer of 160k means 2k performance fee.

Please quote the exact terms of your contract with the estate agent. Are you saying that anything above 158K the EA gets to keep? Why on earth would you agree to such a contract?

But he told me I only got an offer of 150k which he got me to accept by email (I trusted him to pass on the correct offer)

No sure what you mean by "he got me to accept". Clearly you were happy with 150K or you would not have accepted.

and then afterwards I asked for the valuation report it was actually valued at 160k!.

Valuation done by who? If a surveyor, so what? Surveyor's valuation reports are not the same as agreed contract prices.

When I queried this he said you already accepted 150k and became rude and aggressive , but that was on the basis of his lie.

It's not clear from anything you've said above what the 'lie' was.

He would not let me get out of this and then when I tried to back out of the sale get his solicitors to chase me for the 10k fee on the basis of an abortive sale.

Assuming this is England, you can backout at any time before contracts are Exchanged.

* what price is on the contract that your conveyancer has drawn up? £150K? £158? £160? What price are you happy to sell at?

* if you withdraw, you may have to pay an estate agent fee but that depends on the contract wording- please quote the exact words in your contract with the EA regarding

a) sale price

b) fees, and when due (eg if a ready and willing buyer is found), and

c) withdrawing prior to Exchange

He then said I need to re sign the contract(2) for a target price of 150k (as his solicitors told him to do that so it was more legally tight I guess rather then just based on an email)

No one can force you tosign a new contract. What was the difference betwen the contracts - please quote exact words.

Did you sign,or not?

otherwise he was going to chase me for the fee and I would be stuck with a house that was empty (it was a property I was renting out but tenants had left) with mortgage and council tax to pay until the sole selling rights contract ran out and also being chased for a 10k fee.

How long is the minimum term of the sole selling rights contract?

Why did you agree a sole selling rights contract (rather than sole agency)?
So reluctantly I felt forced to resign the contract at a target price of 150k

??? why?

and let him have the 10k fee

??? why?

but after that I found he tried the same scam on others and also I found out that he had been BANNED from estate agent work. He has now been prosecuted by Trading Standards and fined and admitted to scams around performance fees and offences under the fair trading act 2008.

Ah! OK, so....
I intent to take this individual/his company to court and recover my money on the basis he lied to me about offer and the estate agent who signed the 2nd contract is BANNED from estate work and get the contract voided, the original contact for 158k was signed by someone else at the estate agency and not someone who was banned and on that basis I should have only paid 2k performance fee.

OK. So take him to court.
But I was wondering if there any other offences that an Estate Agent can commit if he has told someone the incorrect offer , as I expect they should tell you exactly what the buyer is offering you?

It is very frustrating here when posters drip feed information. Your original post missed out so much relevant information that one is left wondering if it's worth responding. What else are we not being told....?

By the sound of it you simply need to sue in the small claims court for the money you have paid.

'Offences' are prosecuted by the authorities (police, trading standards etc) not individuals, and since TS appear to be aware you can leave any prosecutions for offences to them.

AndyParton

Sorry but I did not include all the rest of the detail as my original query was only around what happens if estate agents tells me the incorrect offer price as far as I am concerned its some type of fraud/ theft offence? but I dont know if there are any other cases that have been prosecuted where someone else has done this that can be compared to as this person has only been fined and not jailed and I wondered if he should have been jailed for this.

Shaztastic3000

But you didn’t get told the incorrect offer price? #imsoconfused

canaldumidi

AndyParton said:

.... this person has only been fined and not jailed and I wondered if he should have been jailed for this.

Clearly we, as intelligent, highly-trained, reliable professionals posting on the internet, and in full posession of all the relevant facts,  are in a far better position to determine whether a fine or prison was an appropriate sentence than some jumped-up inexperienced judge who had slept through a hearing and randomly reachd a sentencing conclusion....

Yes, he should have been jailed as well as having all his assets, including property, claimed under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002.

eddddy

So you signed a contract with a target price of £158k

Then the EA lied to you in order to persuade you to  sign a contract with a target price of £150k - so that the EA would get a bigger fee.

If that's correct, that's fraud.


One option would be to tell your solicitor not to pay the EA's fee (or to only pay what you think is the right amount) - and tell the EA that if they try to sue you in court for the money, you will defend the case by telling the court about their fraudulent activities.