Gas Engineer lying about dangerous issues

everyone_else

I have become an accidental landlord after I had to move for a job. I have instructed a management company to take care of the property but most of the time I have been in direct contact with my tenants with any issues.

After a year of tenancy I contacted the management company because the gas safety certificate was about to expire. I asked them to contact a company I instructed myself the year before but they suggested I used one of their engineers that were slightly cheaper. I agreed not thinking much of it. After the inspection the engineer had put several "dangerous" signs on the boiler as apparently it was leaking carbon monoxide (even though there is a carbon monoxide detector installed right next to the boiler), and several other issues with the oven, outdoor pipe, etc and quoted over £500 to get it all fixed. Some of the issues were mentioned in the certificate from previous year but only as advisories. So I asked the management company if they could contact the original company just to have a second opinion (if there were actual dangerous issues why weren't they highlighted as such last year!?) but they came up with several issues why they couldn't (they kept asking me to confirm that the works could go ahead, then the owner of the original company was ill so it would have taken a long time for them to come over for a second opinion and so on). I ended up calling the original company myself, they had no issues sending an engineer over within 2 days and he found no problems at all with the boiler, no carbon monoxide was leaking, and he issues the certificate. 

It is quite clear to me that the management company is working together with the gas engineer to get extra works done using scare tactics. My tenants were obviously worried about having scary signs on their boiler, as was I of course! I am now unsure what my next steps should be. I obviously do not want to pay for the call out fee for the dodgy engineer and will likely change management companies but more importantly can I contact anybody about what basically amounts to fraud? Lying about something like carbon monoxide leaking from the boiler when that isn't the case sounds like quite a serious offence!

user1977

Are any of the issues things which may be a difference of opinion? You said some had come up as advisories, so there may be a bit of grey area. Also, how do you know which engineer (if either) is "wrong"?

AdrianC

everyone_else said:

I have become an accidental landlord after I had to move for a job.

No, you consciously chose to start a residential lettings business.

The same rules apply to you as to people who do not try to deny that fact.

After a year of tenancy I contacted the management company because the gas safety certificate was about to expire. I asked them to contact a company I instructed myself the year before but they suggested I used one of their engineers that were slightly cheaper. I agreed not thinking much of it. After the inspection the engineer had put several "dangerous" signs on the boiler
...
Some of the issues were mentioned in the certificate from previous year but only as advisories.
...
I ended up calling the original company myself, they had no issues sending an engineer over within 2 days and he found no problems at all with the boiler, no carbon monoxide was leaking, and he issues the certificate. 

It is quite clear to me that the management company is working together with the gas engineer to get extra works done using scare tactics.

Or, perhaps, the issue is borderline - acceptable in one engineer's opinion, not acceptable in another's.

Which of the two is being more responsible? The one that leans towards safety, or the one that leans away from it?

My tenants were obviously worried about having scary signs on their boiler, as was I of course! I am now unsure what my next steps should be.

Given that the issues undoubtedly exist, since your preferred company flagged them last year, I'd be getting the work done.

everyone_else

user1977 said:

Are any of the issues things which may be a difference of opinion? You said some had come up as advisories, so there may be a bit of grey area. Also, how do you know which engineer (if either) is "wrong"?

I am specifically talking about the carbon monoxide leaking. Surely this is something that is measured and is not an opinion?

yllop1101

The gas engineers must have to be registered with a particular body who approve their training standards and safety? I would consider reporting to them to investigate, as well as raising a formal complaint with the estate agents asking for it to be investigated. 

AdrianC

everyone_else said:

user1977 said:

Are any of the issues things which may be a difference of opinion? You said some had come up as advisories, so there may be a bit of grey area. Also, how do you know which engineer (if either) is "wrong"?

I am specifically talking about the carbon monoxide leaking. Surely this is something that is measured and is not an opinion?

Calibration of the meter, method of using it... It may also vary depending on the wind direction relative to the flue.

NSG666

Might be worth seeing what the Gas Safe Register say especially if you have written reports from both.

Not sure who you can report the agency to but some of them get greedy. I used to do plumbing work for a property management company that was owned by a neighbour. I believe that if I charged £50 for a job that would be the amount passed onto the landlord. The company changed hands and I stopped getting their work although I did remain in touch with some of the employees who told me the new owners were doing side deals with tradesmen. They were getting paid by the landlord to manage the property then getting kick-backs from tradesmen who were charging inflated repair costs!

everyone_else

AdrianC said:

everyone_else said:

I have become an accidental landlord after I had to move for a job.

No, you consciously chose to start a residential lettings business.

The same rules apply to you as to people who do not try to deny that fact.

After a year of tenancy I contacted the management company because the gas safety certificate was about to expire. I asked them to contact a company I instructed myself the year before but they suggested I used one of their engineers that were slightly cheaper. I agreed not thinking much of it. After the inspection the engineer had put several "dangerous" signs on the boiler
...
Some of the issues were mentioned in the certificate from previous year but only as advisories.
...
I ended up calling the original company myself, they had no issues sending an engineer over within 2 days and he found no problems at all with the boiler, no carbon monoxide was leaking, and he issues the certificate. 

It is quite clear to me that the management company is working together with the gas engineer to get extra works done using scare tactics.

Or, perhaps, the issue is borderline - acceptable in one engineer's opinion, not acceptable in another's.

Which of the two is being more responsible? The one that leans towards safety, or the one that leans away from it?

My tenants were obviously worried about having scary signs on their boiler, as was I of course! I am now unsure what my next steps should be.

Given that the issues undoubtedly exist, since your preferred company flagged them last year, I'd be getting the work done.

I was referring to becoming an "accidental landlord" as I have seen this phrase used before for people who did not set out to become a landlord, I was just trying to to give a bit of a background not to say that different rules apply to me.

You think it is responsible to say carbon monoxide is leaking from a boiler when it is not? Clearly this is not about leaning or not leaning towards safety, it is flat out lying... 

980233

everyone_else said:

AdrianC said:

everyone_else said:

I have become an accidental landlord after I had to move for a job.

No, you consciously chose to start a residential lettings business.

The same rules apply to you as to people who do not try to deny that fact.

After a year of tenancy I contacted the management company because the gas safety certificate was about to expire. I asked them to contact a company I instructed myself the year before but they suggested I used one of their engineers that were slightly cheaper. I agreed not thinking much of it. After the inspection the engineer had put several "dangerous" signs on the boiler
...
Some of the issues were mentioned in the certificate from previous year but only as advisories.
...
I ended up calling the original company myself, they had no issues sending an engineer over within 2 days and he found no problems at all with the boiler, no carbon monoxide was leaking, and he issues the certificate. 

It is quite clear to me that the management company is working together with the gas engineer to get extra works done using scare tactics.

Or, perhaps, the issue is borderline - acceptable in one engineer's opinion, not acceptable in another's.

Which of the two is being more responsible? The one that leans towards safety, or the one that leans away from it?

My tenants were obviously worried about having scary signs on their boiler, as was I of course! I am now unsure what my next steps should be.

Given that the issues undoubtedly exist, since your preferred company flagged them last year, I'd be getting the work done.

I was referring to becoming an "accidental landlord" as I have seen this phrase used before for people who did not set out to become a landlord, I was just trying to to give a bit of a background not to say that different rules apply to me.

You think it is responsible to say carbon monoxide is leaking from a boiler when it is not? Clearly this is not about leaning or not leaning towards safety, it is flat out lying... 

I take it you have had a second independent engineer to visit and confirm this?

Or are you an expert sniffer of this odorless and colourless gas?

user1977

everyone_else said:

user1977 said:

Are any of the issues things which may be a difference of opinion? You said some had come up as advisories, so there may be a bit of grey area. Also, how do you know which engineer (if either) is "wrong"?

I am specifically talking about the carbon monoxide leaking. Surely this is something that is measured and is not an opinion?

Ok - have you witnessed somebody measuring it and failing to find any?

lookstraightahead

How do you know it's not your engineer who is dodgy?

just change management companies if you're not happy with them, then report them if you feel you should.