Selling garden land

Mrsscriv

Help please. We own a plot of garden land that runs behind our house and our next door neighbours house.
The land has its own title deed as we bought it separate from our property some years ago. At that time our then neighbour didn’t want any extra garden and the only way to buy our bit was to buy the bit behind next door as well.
There are no services on the land or access issues.
We are now intending to sell approx 1/3 of the land to our neighbour ( this still leaves us with large garden).
Conveyancing costs are ridiculous considering the sale price is less than £10k. Does anyone know if it is possible to do the sale/land transfer without a solicitor?
It has been suggested that we can just get the land registry to ‘split’ the land to create two new title deeds and that we then just transfer one into the neighbours name when they hand over the money but this sound too simple. 

GDB2222

The Land Registry was originally intended to be something that an end user could use. However, it's quite a steep learning curve!

You are unlikely to do anything really drastically bad, but you could easily get something wrong, then have to resubmit the application, then something else wrong, etc.  

I expect you'll need a surveyor to draw up two title plans. That will cost.

There are pitfalls, if either of you have a mortgage:-- 
If you have a mortgage, your lender will have to agree to the sale and release his charge on the land being sold. (You did tell your lender that you bought the land?)
If your neighbour has a mortgage, his lenders will require a charge over any adjoining land he buys. It's in the T&Cs of his loan. Somewhere! 

The lenders will want this done by a 'proper' conveyancer.

Can I ask how much you've been quoted, and whether you have looked around? 
To be frank, you could be giving the land away, but that wouldn't reduce the work involved. I would expect a cost in the region of £1000, and I'm not sure it's a wasted expense.

I'm someone who used to do my own conveyancing, by the way. 

user1977

Mrsscriv said:

Conveyancing costs are ridiculous considering the sale price is less than £10k. Does anyone know if it is possible to do the sale/land transfer without a solicitor?

In theory, yes, but tricky if you don't know what you're doing. Is it mortgaged? If so then you'll need the lender's consent. The conveyancing process is much the same no matter the value of the property involved, arguably even fiddlier if you're dividing a plot rather than simply flogging the whole of an already-registered property.

It has been suggested that we can just get the land registry to ‘split’ the land to create two new title deeds

Suggested by whom? I don't think you can subdivide a registered plot without a transfer to somebody else.

GDB2222

user1977 said:

Mrsscriv said:

Conveyancing costs are ridiculous considering the sale price is less than £10k. Does anyone know if it is possible to do the sale/land transfer without a solicitor?

In theory, yes, but tricky if you don't know what you're doing. Is it mortgaged? If so then you'll need the lender's consent. The conveyancing process is much the same no matter the value of the property involved, arguably even fiddlier if you're dividing a plot rather than simply flogging the whole of an already-registered property.

It has been suggested that we can just get the land registry to ‘split’ the land to create two new title deeds

Suggested by whom? I don't think you can subdivide a registered plot without a transfer to somebody else.

It's interesting that we came to much the same conclusions, and posted 1 minute apart. I don't think there's any stalking involved.

"I don't think you can subdivide a registered plot without a transfer to somebody else."  I don't think that's right. I don't think you can grant yourself a lease, but I don't see why you can't split a piece of land?  Surely, developers do that all the time?

user1977

GDB2222 said:

user1977 said:

Mrsscriv said:

Conveyancing costs are ridiculous considering the sale price is less than £10k. Does anyone know if it is possible to do the sale/land transfer without a solicitor?

In theory, yes, but tricky if you don't know what you're doing. Is it mortgaged? If so then you'll need the lender's consent. The conveyancing process is much the same no matter the value of the property involved, arguably even fiddlier if you're dividing a plot rather than simply flogging the whole of an already-registered property.

It has been suggested that we can just get the land registry to ‘split’ the land to create two new title deeds

Suggested by whom? I don't think you can subdivide a registered plot without a transfer to somebody else.

"I don't think you can subdivide a registered plot without a transfer to somebody else."  I don't think that's right. I don't think you can grant yourself a lease, but I don't see why you can't split a piece of land?  Surely, developers do that all the time?

I think that's the conclusion reached from other threads. Developers don't do it all the time, no. If you buy e.g. a new house, it doesn't normally already have its own title, the division from the estate title only happens when you register your title.

GDB2222

user1977 said:

GDB2222 said:

user1977 said:

Mrsscriv said:

Conveyancing costs are ridiculous considering the sale price is less than £10k. Does anyone know if it is possible to do the sale/land transfer without a solicitor?

In theory, yes, but tricky if you don't know what you're doing. Is it mortgaged? If so then you'll need the lender's consent. The conveyancing process is much the same no matter the value of the property involved, arguably even fiddlier if you're dividing a plot rather than simply flogging the whole of an already-registered property.

It has been suggested that we can just get the land registry to ‘split’ the land to create two new title deeds

Suggested by whom? I don't think you can subdivide a registered plot without a transfer to somebody else.

"I don't think you can subdivide a registered plot without a transfer to somebody else."  I don't think that's right. I don't think you can grant yourself a lease, but I don't see why you can't split a piece of land?  Surely, developers do that all the time?

I think that's the conclusion reached from other threads. Developers don't do it all the time, no. If you buy e.g. a new house, it doesn't normally already have its own title, the division from the estate title only happens when you register your title.

Interesting. There doesn't seem to be a legal issue stopping the split. These solicitors state:

Whilst a property owner or their conveyancer can apply to the Land registry with their proposal as to how they want their existing single title split, in our experience, they are largely reluctant to grant such requests.

https://www.fosters-solicitors.co.uk/news/business-&-commercial/splitting-title-or-splitting-hairs/866

However, they do say, as will come as no surprise: 

There is a frequent misunderstanding that this should be done by splitting the title in advance of a sale, when in fact this is best and most efficiently dealt with by separate sales of each plot using transfers of part (a TP1 form);


In other words, it's a moot point whether it's possible to split the title then sell one part, as it's far easier to do the whole thing in one go with a TP1 form.  

That's precisely the sort of point where a layperson could waste an awful lot of time and energy. 

diggingdude

Did they neighbour approach you? I would have got them to cover my legal costs 

Slithery

GDB2222 said:

user1977 said:

GDB2222 said:

user1977 said:

Mrsscriv said:

Conveyancing costs are ridiculous considering the sale price is less than £10k. Does anyone know if it is possible to do the sale/land transfer without a solicitor?

In theory, yes, but tricky if you don't know what you're doing. Is it mortgaged? If so then you'll need the lender's consent. The conveyancing process is much the same no matter the value of the property involved, arguably even fiddlier if you're dividing a plot rather than simply flogging the whole of an already-registered property.

It has been suggested that we can just get the land registry to ‘split’ the land to create two new title deeds

Suggested by whom? I don't think you can subdivide a registered plot without a transfer to somebody else.

"I don't think you can subdivide a registered plot without a transfer to somebody else."  I don't think that's right. I don't think you can grant yourself a lease, but I don't see why you can't split a piece of land?  Surely, developers do that all the time?

I think that's the conclusion reached from other threads. Developers don't do it all the time, no. If you buy e.g. a new house, it doesn't normally already have its own title, the division from the estate title only happens when you register your title.

Interesting. There doesn't seem to be a legal issue stopping the split. These solicitors state:

Whilst a property owner or their conveyancer can apply to the Land registry with their proposal as to how they want their existing single title split, in our experience, they are largely reluctant to grant such requests.

https://www.fosters-solicitors.co.uk/news/business-&-commercial/splitting-title-or-splitting-hairs/866

However, they do say, as will come as no surprise: 

There is a frequent misunderstanding that this should be done by splitting the title in advance of a sale, when in fact this is best and most efficiently dealt with by separate sales of each plot using transfers of part (a TP1 form);


In other words, it's a moot point whether it's possible to split the title then sell one part, as it's far easier to do the whole thing in one go with a TP1 form.  

That's precisely the sort of point where a layperson could waste an awful lot of time and energy. 

There's another good reason that they don't split titles unless they have to. If they did I could split up the nice bit of countryside I own into 13 titles and as long as I move my caravan/mobile home onto a different title every <30 days I can could live there all year round without needing to get planning permission.