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Severn Trent installed Water Meter without home owners consent

On a routine lead pipe replacement request, Severn Trent installation team fitted a water meter whilst connecting the new MDPE pipe . They informed me about the water meter after it was installed but before the hole was re-filled.

I immediately informed the installation team that I was not happy about this, however they told me it is a requirement. I called the office and also told them that the water meter was not communicated with me prior and that I do not want it.

The team told me that I will not be subscribed on the water meter rate; its installed to monitor leakage. I cannot understand the logic of this as Severn Trent would need to replace the whole area with water meters to confirm input and output and only a difference would mean there is a leak. In my view, a leak could occur anywhere in their infrastructure and they will not be able to determine its location. It doesn't make sense.

I have confirmed on a parliament legislative paper, that I do not live in an area which has been determined to be an area of serious water stress and subject to a metering programme as part of a plan to maintain secure water supplies. Thus, I do think they have breached policies.

I complained to Severn Trent and they maintain they have the right to install a meter as its on their appliance (stop valve) and that the meter will not be used to base my water charges on.

I do think that they have been underhanded and mislead me about this as it was not communicated. On the day of the install they insisted on replacing the valve even though it was replaced 9 months ago and I wondered why. They replaced it with a metered one.

Can they do this?
Here is the paper I was referring to https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7342/





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Comments

  • Section62
    Section62 Posts: 8,675 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited 29 September 2021 at 6:57PM

    On a routine lead pipe replacement request, Severn Trent installation team fitted a water meter whilst connecting the new MDPE pipe . They informed me about the water meter after it was installed but before the hole was re-filled.

    I immediately informed the installation team that I was not happy about this, however they told me it is a requirement. I called the office and also told them that the water meter was not communicated with me prior and that I do not want it.

    The team told me that I will not be subscribed on the water meter rate; its installed to monitor leakage. I cannot understand the logic of this as Severn Trent would need to replace the whole area with water meters to confirm input and output and only a difference would mean there is a leak. In my view, a leak could occur anywhere in their infrastructure and they will not be able to determine its location. It doesn't make sense.

    I have confirmed on a parliament legislative paper, that I do not live in an area which has been determined to be an area of serious water stress and subject to a metering programme as part of a plan to maintain secure water supplies. Thus, I do think they have breached policies.

    I complained to Severn Trent and they maintain they have the right to install a meter as its on their appliance (stop valve) and that the meter will not be used to base my water charges on.

    I do think that they have been underhanded and mislead me about this as it was not communicated. On the day of the install they insisted on replacing the valve even though it was replaced 9 months ago and I wondered why. They replaced it with a metered one.

    Can they do this?
    Here is the paper I was referring to https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7342/


    Short answer: Yes.

    What is your objection?  They have confirmed your billing will continue as it was, not as a metered supply.


    There is a difference between (1) fitting a meter on their equipment, and (2) compelling you to have your supply billed on the basis of readings taken from that meter.

    The former is permitted (almost unconditionally) by the Water Industry Act 1991 (Section 162).  The latter is only permitted in certain circumstances (one of which is 'serious water stress').

    See your link under the heading "Can a water company insist on the installation of a water meter?" which lists some of the circumstances on an "or" basis. (i.e. compulsory metered billing is an option if any one of those conditions apply)


    But they have said the basis of your billing won't be changing (yet).


    Edit: You are in fact fortunate - you can now check the readings on the meter they have fitted and find out whether your bills would be cheaper if you switch to metered billing, and without any obligation to do so.
  • danlightbulb
    danlightbulb Posts: 933 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 29 September 2021 at 7:31PM
    Section62 said:

    Edit: You are in fact fortunate - you can now check the readings on the meter they have fitted and find out whether your bills would be cheaper if you switch to metered billing, and without any obligation to do so.
    This is one of the reasons they do it, to encourage customers to switch to metered billing when presented with data about their usage.

    The other reason, as stated, is to monitor their network to find out what unmeasured customers are actually using. The OP will now be part of a sample of customers who feed into network wide consumption models.

    Oh the other thing is if you ever move house, the new occupier will probably go on to metered charges without any choice.
  • elsien
    elsien Posts: 35,057 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    If they’re not charging you for metered water, does it really matter? 
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
  • JJ_Egan
    JJ_Egan Posts: 20,281 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Severn Trent. OP may well find that metered is up to half their normal RV cost .
  • the fit these as check/leakage meter. a water company use this to see if you have a leak on your side or there side. it is all part of leak detection.

    we fit them all the time to unmeasured supplies to help us out in the field.

    they have told you they will not bill you on it so you can stay on your precious RV which is probably more than being on a meter anyway as you are with severn trent who charge more for unmetered than than meter

    they new/old stop tap could have had a meter fitted to it any time but they have taken now as the time to fit a leakage meter.

    as said in the quotes above you would be wise to check your consumption and see if you could save on meter
  • spaceinvader1
    spaceinvader1 Posts: 7 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    edited 1 October 2021 at 6:36PM
    reefer37 said:
    the fit these as check/leakage meter. a water company use this to see if you have a leak on your side or there side. it is all part of leak detection.

    we fit them all the time to unmeasured supplies to help us out in the field.

    they have told you they will not bill you on it so you can stay on your precious RV which is probably more than being on a meter anyway as you are with severn trent who charge more for unmetered than than meter

    they new/old stop tap could have had a meter fitted to it any time but they have taken now as the time to fit a leakage meter.

    as said in the quotes above you would be wise to check your consumption and see if you could save on meter

    A leak on the property owner side (a length of 6 metres is highly improbable). Detecting a leak on ST site is impossible. ST cannot justify the rationale to detect leaks on their side. Provide the rationale and there will be holes in it. Last time there was a leak, it was obvious and they took 2 weeks to resolve it!

    So the only reason why ST have put in this meter is to make charges in the future, either to the present owner or the next person who moves to the address.

  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,054 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Rampant Recycler


    So the only reason why ST have put in this meter is to make charges in the future, either to the present owner or the next person who moves to the address.

    Absolutely correct.

    In fact all water companies have had the power to fit and charge householders metered water charges since 01 April 1990 on change of account holder. That was the date water meters became mandatory for all new dwellings.

    Existing account holders could exercise 'grandfather rights' and remain on Rateable Value charges or opt for a meter.

    It was the clear intention of the Water Act that all properties meters would eventually get metered. However the reason some Water Companies did not, and do not, exercise their mandate to fit meters on change of account holder is because they have no financial incentive to do so. Ofwat authorise each water company to raise £xxxmillion in revenue provided they meet certain targets and it simply doesn't matter to the water companies if they could raise more money by forcing customers to have meters, as the shortfall is made up from metered customers.

    Also the RV based charges are based on a Rateable Value that was last assessed for most houses in UK in 1972 or between 1972 and 1990 for houses built during that period. Under the terms and conditions of the tariff houseowners should get a meter installed if they make any alterations to the property that would affect its value. Again nobody complies with that condition and water companies never check as they have no financial incentive.

    I personally know of an old rundown cottage that had a peppercorn RV. It was torn down an a huge 7 bed house was built with full planning permission and it retains the same RV. Similarly many large houses are used as guest houses/childrens homes etc and they remain on RV based rates. They shouldn't even be on a domestic tariff.

    So unless your water account has been in your name since 1990 and you have not made improvements that altered it's value, you are fortunate to have escaped having a meter.

    Unmetered properties do use more water and hence greater use of sewerage facilities. Also the point about a meter detecting leaks is valid. Unmetered account holders might not even know about a leak, or if they do know about it often will not get it repaired if it doesn't affect their property. 

    I know there is a huge program in Thames Water's area to fit meters under the same conditions as yourself i.e. meter's fitted but remain on RV based charges.


  • theoretica
    theoretica Posts: 12,685 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic

    So the only reason why ST have put in this meter is to make charges in the future, either to the present owner or the next person who moves to the address.


    And they were there doing work anyway, so likely cheaper for them to fit it now, on the off chance you might move in the next few years (or change your mind), than to come back on a separate job to fit one in future.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
  • brewerdave
    brewerdave Posts: 8,612 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    OP - I have "saved" ~ £4k since the meter was installed some 9 years ago by comparing metered charge with RV based charges!!
  • matelodave
    matelodave Posts: 8,856 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    OP - I have "saved" ~ £4k since the meter was installed some 9 years ago by comparing metered charge with RV based charges!!
    Same here, first thing we did when we moved in eleven years ago and have been saving around £400 in the first year
    Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
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