Power of Attorney issues

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If this is in the wrong section please move it. 

My husband and I have joint POA for an elderly friend with dementia. 
To be honest the role is far more complex and time consuming than I’d ever imagined, and made more complex by the fact that we have to run everything by his daughter as next of kin. 

As I’m sure many other people do as POA, we sort and pay his utility bills, milkman, arrange numerous hospital and optician appointments, weekly trip to the pharmacy, social work, carers, gardener, taxi to visit his daughter etc etc. 

My husband drives Mr M to the co-op 6 days a week to get groceries and a daily paper. Until we took over the finances Mr M used to give my husband the odd £20 towards fuel. But now he hasn’t got spare cash as he was not safe with it. We have control of his finances but I am uncomfortable with ‘taking’ any money, other than paying his bills etc. 

We have come to the conclusion that it would be appropriate for us to invoice Mr M for these journeys as travel expenses. In addition, for example today I had to partake in a one hour meeting with the family and Social Work. Can I claim reasonable expenses for that too? 

We really want to continue acting in Mr M’s best interests, but currently it is costing us! 
When I read the guidance on gov.U.K. It is all very vague and just says to invoice the donor. But is there a special way of creating or storing these invoices? 

Is there a guide to what is a reasonable expense for an hour of my time? ( I am retired but run my own jam making business/hobby. I don’t have a wage. But one hour out of this afternoon meant the whole afternoon was wasted for jam, despite me having orders waiting to be fulfilled) 

I don’t begrudge Mr M at all, and I understand why he passed this role to us rather than his daughter. However I would welcome advice and guidance on how to make it a little easier. 
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Comments

  • KxMx
    KxMx Posts: 10,618 Forumite
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    How about a phone call to the OPG? I'm sure these questions have come up before and they are the best place to answer. 
  • elsien
    elsien Posts: 32,940 Forumite
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    edited 28 September 2021 at 11:45PM
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    With regards to the daughter, next of kin has no legal meaning so any running past her that you do is a courtesy not an obligation. Bearing in mind that if he’d wanted her as decision maker, she’d have been the power of attorney not you.
    Or is your LPA just for finances and not health/welfare? 

    Invoicing for travel  is one thing; invoicing for your time is different and I agree you should get specific guidance on that as I think it would be pushing the boundaries. I think professional LPA can charge but friends/family can only do so if specified in the LPA. You could always ask for meetings to be at a time that is more convenient for you. 
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
  • Ms_Chocaholic
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    Does the gentleman have to go to the shop 6 days a week for a paper - can you arrange for one to be delivered and him get a few days of groceries in advance.
    Thrifty Till 50 Then Spend Till the End
    You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time
  • cannugec5
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    Does the gentleman have to go to the shop 6 days a week for a paper - can you arrange for one to be delivered and him get a few days of groceries in advance.
    Unfortunately there is no paper delivery service available in the area. We have looked into that ad infinitum. My husband himself used to get a daily paper, but has long since given up, preferring the online versions. But Mr M ‘needs’ his paper as a part of his routine. His dementia prevents any online activity. 
     On Sundays a taxi takes him to visit his daughter and from there he can walk to a paper shop. 
    Recently we had a break away for three days and during that time a taxi collected his paper for him, but that is not a sustainable option. 
  • Ms_Chocaholic
    Ms_Chocaholic Posts: 12,639 Forumite
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    edited 29 September 2021 at 12:08AM
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    Where does the daughter live in relation to her dad, just because you have POA it doesn't mean you have to do everything for him - could she take him for the paper.
    Thrifty Till 50 Then Spend Till the End
    You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time
  • cannugec5
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    Where does the daughter live in relation to her dad, just because you have POA it doesn't mean you have to do everything for him - could she take him for the paper.
    Again this is difficult. She only lives 6 miles away, but relies on public transport. She moved here from England earlier this year specifically to help with her father. But does not drive. She expects us to do it all, but I have tried to politely explain that we wish to support her in doing whatever she can for him. 
  • elsien
    elsien Posts: 32,940 Forumite
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    Does he have any carers going in, and is any of this something they could help with? I do know of some carers who pick up a paper on their way in, for example. 
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
  • Ms_Chocaholic
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    It sounds like you are being treated as unpaid carers, I'd soon put a stop to that, POA is one thing, taking him shopping daily is another.  I'd put the responsibility firmly back at the daughter's door.
    Thrifty Till 50 Then Spend Till the End
    You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time
  • cannugec5
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    It sounds like you are being treated as unpaid carers, I'd soon put a stop to that, POA is one thing, taking him shopping daily is another.  I'd put the responsibility firmly back at the daughter's door.
    You are not wrong. But it is all very complicated as I’m sure it is in many cases. We knew Mr M and became friends long before we met the daughter. My husband was in school with Mr M’s late partner - and that was the connection. 

    We have realised that the daughter (the only one we have met, but not the only one) isn’t really able to take it all on, despite her enthusiasm. 
    We don’t wish to be carers ( my husband is  75 himself ), but also we don’t wish to abandon a friend. 
     But actually none of that was my question. Is there anyone who has trod this path before has a template for a suitable invoice? 

  • elsien
    elsien Posts: 32,940 Forumite
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    As a reminder, 

    Expenses

    You can only claim expenses for things you must do to carry out your role as an attorney, for example:

    • hiring a professional to do things like fill in the donor’s tax return
    • travel costs
    • stationery
    • postage
    • phone calls
    But within that, you will have receipts for the tangible things. For petrol expenses, you will need to work out how much to charge for the distance travelled. HMRC 45p a mile rate would seem reasonable and there are travel expense forms online which might help you keep a running tally if it’s easier to charge monthly. 
    Anything else, although I can’t see what else you might be invoicing for that doesn’t have an attached receipt or bill, all you need is date, details and signature. A simple word document would do. Or buy a basic invoice book. 

    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
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