I sold my van now he wants money off

NBLondon

B2b is Business 2 Business  i.e. was the van owned by you as an individual or by a business you own?  If the former, then sold as seen is normal; if the latter then it might be different.

I'd say cut your reply down a little - the key points are:

• The vehicle was test driven and sold as seen.
• You were unaware of any faults to clutch, turbo etc. prior to purchase and your advert made this clear.
• The vehicle has been in the hands of an unknown person and therefore any offers to return are now void as the vehicle cannot be returned as sold.

Leave out the bits about threats and trust.

kitch85

No it was a private  to private sale 

BOWFER

Jeez, is it any wonder people use the likes of WBAC....

Grumpy_chap

kitch85 said:

No hes employed by a company he is not a sole trader, he turned up in his work van.
 you can prove pre existing that's what a test drive is for the clutch was fine on the test drive and the turbo boosted fine so why are there issues two days later

kitch85 said:

Also the 30 days refund with proof of problems is a trading standards thing, but he has to prove that I sold him that van in that condition, he drove from essex to crowsbough kent and didnt mention the clutch or turbo and I know there was nothing wrong with them when I sold it 

All of this (pre-existing faults, 30 days etc) is only relevant if you are a trade seller and the purchaser is a consumer.

BUT, in a way, you may have established that is what you believe to be the case by offering the full refund (subject to report) and / or the £500 partial refund and keep the van.

Did you, or did you not, make those offers on refund?  These are likely to be critical points in the outcome of a small-claims case.  If these offers were via e-mail or text, then this is a case where you'd probably be better off seeking an early resolution and cutting your losses.

It is starting to look as though you sold the van as a Trader, or at least gave the purchaser the honest impression that you were a trader and your post-sale responses seem to support that.  Small-claims are settled on balance of probability and that is not looking favourable from your position right now.

AdrianC

kitch85 said:

No it was a private  to private sale 

So your wife never used the van for work purposes?

And you sold it to a private buyer, not the motor trader you've been telling us all along you sold it to?

kitch85

I am in no way a trader at all, also as I said b4 the 30 day refund applies to private sales, I went by what the AA website says.

Between 30 days and 6 months

If a fault comes to light after 30 days but before 6 months you’re entitled to a repair, replacement or refund.

• It’s assumed in law that the fault was present at the time of purchase unless the seller can prove otherwise.
• Unless you’ve agreed otherwise, the seller (dealer) has only one opportunity to repair (or replace) the faulty vehicle after which, if they fail to repair it, you’re entitled to a refund.
• In the event of a refund following a failed attempt at repair during the first six months the seller may make a 'reasonable' adjustment to the amount refunded to take account of the use that you’ve had of the vehicle.

Jenni_D

That snippet from the AA is NOT regarding privates sales! NOT AT ALL. With private sales only 2 things matter:

1) You have good title to sell the goods (i.e. they are yours to sell)
2) The goods are accurately described (in adverts and with person-to-person communications)

Nothing else! No warranty, no presumed fitness for purpose or anything like that (previously referred to as SADFART) - they only apply to Business to Consumer transactions.

Sorry but if you persist down this path you are deluding yourself.

kitch85

So I the title was good and the van was sold as described so I shouldn't worry then ?

Grumpy_chap

kitch85 said:

I am in no way a trader at all, also as I said b4 the 30 day refund applies to private sales, I went by what the AA website says.

Between 30 days and 6 months

If a fault comes to light after 30 days but before 6 months you’re entitled to a repair, replacement or refund.

• It’s assumed in law that the fault was present at the time of purchase unless the seller can prove otherwise.
• Unless you’ve agreed otherwise, the seller (dealer) has only one opportunity to repair (or replace) the faulty vehicle after which, if they fail to repair it, you’re entitled to a refund.
• In the event of a refund following a failed attempt at repair during the first six months the seller may make a 'reasonable' adjustment to the amount refunded to take account of the use that you’ve had of the vehicle.

Jenni_D said:

That snippet from the AA is NOT regarding privates sales! NOT AT ALL. With private sales only 2 things matter:

1) You have good title to sell the goods (i.e. they are yours to sell)
2) The goods are accurately described (in adverts and with person-to-person communications)

Nothing else! No warranty, no presumed fitness for purpose or anything like that (previously referred to as SADFART) - they only apply to Business to Consumer transactions.

Sorry but if you persist down this path you are deluding yourself.

That snippet is from this page:
https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights

This is the important heading:
Your rights depend on where you buy your car

And this:
Your rights will depend on where you buy. You’ll have less protection if you buy privately or from an auction compared to buying from a dealer.

And this:
The Consumer Rights Act came into force on 1 October 2015 and covers the purchase of goods, digital content and services including new and used cars from official dealers (it doesn't apply to private sales)


You do seem to have set yourself up as a Dealer in this and the purchaser could reasonably demonstrate now that it was their honest belief that you were a Dealer.

You can protest all you like that you are not a Dealer.

It is down to nothing more than luck whether the small-claims court accepts that you are not a Dealer, or whether they determine the balance of probabilities is with the purchaser.

Relying on snippets of information taken out of context is dangerous at the best of times.

You still seem unable to answer the direct question whether you did or did not send the e-mail referenced:

kitch85 said:

Alternatively with your email stating: with a full report done on the vehicle you will offer a full refund within 30 days. This is all I’ve got to produce in court.

If you sent that e-mail, and you've already offered £500 back, then just agree the £700 requested as "full and final settlement", pay it and move on.  It is only £200 more than you were willing to give in any case.  Or quibble to meet in the middle for rapid closure.

But please answer the direct question about the alleged e-mail.

kitch85

AdrianC said:

kitch85 said:

No it was a private  to private sale 

So your wife never used the van for work purposes?

And you sold it to a private buyer, not the motor trader you've been telling us all along you sold it to?

What motor trader ?