TUPE Transfer

Paul1762

I was TUPE into a new Company over 2 years ago.  Since being TUPE over my Net Pay has decreased as a direct consequence of TUPE, which in esence I have had a pay cut.

I have an ongoing grievance with the new employer.

I cannot find the words in any of the TUPE literacy that states I should not be in this position because of TUPE... can anyone point me in the right direction please?

General_Grant

Paul1762 said:

I was TUPE into a new Company over 2 years ago.  Since being TUPE over my Net Pay has decreased as a direct consequence of TUPE, which in esence I have had a pay cut.

I have an ongoing grievance with the new employer.

I cannot find the words in any of the TUPE literacy that states I should not be in this position because of TUPE... can anyone point me in the right direction please?

I don't think you will find words in TUPE literature which say what you are looking for - because it won't be there.

Jillanddy

Paul1762 said:

I was TUPE into a new Company over 2 years ago.  Since being TUPE over my Net Pay has decreased as a direct consequence of TUPE, which in esence I have had a pay cut.

I have an ongoing grievance with the new employer.

I cannot find the words in any of the TUPE literacy that states I should not be in this position because of TUPE... can anyone point me in the right direction please?

There's very little information to go on here, but I am assuming that a pay cut "in essence" means you have had no pay rises? Unless you are contractually entitled to pay rises  then TUPE has nothing to do with anything. And welcome to the "no pay rises" club. If there is something else "in essence" then you will have to explain it better, but TUPE offers much less protection than most people assume.

Paul1762

My situation is not about pay rises,  although we have we told that we are not entitled.   This is about my net pay is now about 8% less in real terms because of type way my total salary is being paid now compare with working for my last employer.

68ComebackSpecial

Paul1762 said:

My situation is not about pay rises,  although we have we told that we are not entitled.   This is about my net pay is now about 8% less in real terms because of type way my total salary is being paid now compare with working for my last employer.

Please explain what the change is. 

Paul1762

It is the way my benefits are now treated… and the cost of the benefits (especially Health care) have to be sources as an individual plan, where before it was a group policy purchased by the previous company.

Jillanddy

You cannot force an employer to have a group policy just because your previous employer did. TUPE simply doesn't cover that. You still have the benefits, and assuming they are contractual that is all you are entitled to. And be very cautious about rocking the boat two years on, because TUPE protects your terms of employment at the point of transfer - after that terms are fair game for several reasons, and two years later they could be changed very easily. Poking the bear might not be a good idea in case they start to review the affordability of your terms, harmonisation, or anything else.

Paul1762

Thanks for your message.

I have still the contractual benefits.  However the time is down to the new employer trying to resolve my grievance.

and I am not poking the bear,  I am trying to get a long standing grievance resolved.

Undervalued

Paul1762 said:

Thanks for your message.

I have still the contractual benefits.  However the time is down to the new employer trying to resolve my grievance.

and I am not poking the bear,  I am trying to get a long standing grievance resolved.

How the employee sees it - "I am trying to get a long standing grievance resolved"

How the employer sees it -"poking the bear"

As has been said, TUPE (sort of) protects your entitlements at the time it happens. From that moment onwards terms can change just as the could have done at your old employers and as they can for any employee.

Contractual benefits and indeed basic salary can be reduced fairly easily, for example if an employer can argue that costs must be cut or the alternative would be redundancy. The employee then has two alternatives (assuming negotiation doesn't work), either accept the changes or resign and claim unfair dismissal (not constructive unfair dismissal under such circumstances). It would then be for a tribunal to decide if the changes were reasonable. If not they would award some compensation but can't force your employer to re-employ you on the old terms.

Jillanddy

Undervalued said:

Paul1762 said:

Thanks for your message.

I have still the contractual benefits.  However the time is down to the new employer trying to resolve my grievance.

and I am not poking the bear,  I am trying to get a long standing grievance resolved.

How the employee sees it - "I am trying to get a long standing grievance resolved"

How the employer sees it -"poking the bear"

Exactly. I can't know the circumstances, but I can interpret "long standing grievance" to mean "the employer has absolutely no intention whatsoever of taking out a cheaper policy for you" - if this has now been going on for two years then they have absolutely no intention of moving their ground, and you have absolutely no way of making them do so. They have not (possibly, yet) removed the benefit - the cost of the benefit or the type of policy is very unlikely to be a contractual term, so they have complied with the legal requirements of TUPE. They aren't required to maintain your net pay to the pre-TUPE level. That might be nice, but there is nothing in law that says that they must do that. So you can keep arguing with them, and they may just keep saying no, or start ignoring you... both of which they are entitled to do. Or they may start thinking about whether the terms are cost effective for them and whether they wish to terminate this or any other term they inherited. Which they are also entitled to do. It is exceptionally easy to find a valid reason for doing so (especially, as I said, after two years) and it is rare indeed that a tribunal finds against an employer in these circumstances, because they can't really investigate the employers claims or invalidate their argument. So, for example, if the employer claims that it is this term goes or redundancy for employees, then the tribunal cannot take into account the fact that profits are increasing - it is not a tribunals job to say what an acceptable level of profit it. 

In all honesty, if this is such a deal breaker, and improving your net pay is your ultimate goal, then seeking other employment is the only realistic way forward. 

Paul1762

If I was to make a employment tribunal claim…

I can do this under: unfair deductions from my pay…