Change loft tank for unvented cylinder

Section62

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

goodwithsaving said:

I feel a bit cautious about spending on a big tank when I want a combi eventually too. The mains pressure is fine, but the shower really is that bad (it only has a tap connected one / tap water pressure in the bathroom isn't good.

Unless you have very little headroom in the loft there should be enough head to get a decent flow rate from the bathroom taps if you have 22mm pipe.  The right mixer shower should then give you at least an economical shower, if not a power shower.

Why are electric showers so common then in houses with gravity systems?

And did anybody suggested an electric shower to the OP? IMO, it's a good option, especially if the water is expensive.

Because people love showers which use lots of water and energy?

You also stopped the quote just before I mentioned the pump....

Section62

Bendy_House said:

And they'll fire up whenever you run any tap.

Only if installed by cowboy plumbers or dodgy DIYers who don't know what they are doing.

Grenage

Bendy_House said:

Absolutely, Gren. But shower pumps like these are noisy, thrummy, gushy and generally a bit sh***y

Imo.

And they'll fire up whenever you run any tap. Urgh, nasty hateful things...

But, yes, an obvious temporary solution.

Oh, and they'll also blow GWS's shower attachment off his bath taps...

We inherited a shower pump with our unvented system.  It was noisy as hell, and often leaked.  They'd put it halfway up a stud airing cupboard and it effectively turned it into a loudspeaker.

I redid the pipework when it died and installed it on a concrete block on the floor.  Now you can barely hear it in the room.

Also had to add a second tank as the original was undersized for the shower.

Now I'm not sure I'd ever give a power shower up without a fight.  Might reconsider if we convert the other side of the loft.

grumbler

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

goodwithsaving said:

I feel a bit cautious about spending on a big tank when I want a combi eventually too. The mains pressure is fine, but the shower really is that bad (it only has a tap connected one / tap water pressure in the bathroom isn't good.

Unless you have very little headroom in the loft there should be enough head to get a decent flow rate from the bathroom taps if you have 22mm pipe.  The right mixer shower should then give you at least an economical shower, if not a power shower.

Why are electric showers so common then in houses with gravity systems?

And did anybody suggested an electric shower to the OP? IMO, it's a good option, especially if the water is expensive.

Because people love showers which use lots of water and energy?

You also stopped the quote just before I mentioned the pump....

I mean showers with mains pressure and electric heating, not power showers. Yes, they use lots of (electric) energy, but not lots of water.

grumbler

Grenage said:

Bendy_House said:

Absolutely, Gren. But shower pumps like these are noisy, thrummy, gushy and generally a bit sh***y

Imo.

And they'll fire up whenever you run any tap. Urgh, nasty hateful things...

But, yes, an obvious temporary solution.

Oh, and they'll also blow GWS's shower attachment off his bath taps...

We inherited a shower pump with our unvented system.

Are you sure it was unvented?

Section62

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Why are electric showers so common then in houses with gravity systems?

And did anybody suggested an electric shower to the OP? IMO, it's a good option, especially if the water is expensive.

Because people love showers which use lots of water and energy?

You also stopped the quote just before I mentioned the pump....

I mean showers with mains pressure and electric heating, not power showers.

I realised that, it was the basis of my reply.

People are often unhappy with gravity-only showers because the flow rate and pressure is not enough for their liking.  They want a shower which squirts out more water, harder.  Which means for a shower of a given duration, more water and energy will be used.

In a home with gravity plumbing, getting more flow and pressure from your shower means either a pumped solution, or switching to a mains-fed electric shower.

Hence the popularity of electric showers in houses with gravity systems. QED

grumbler said:

Yes, they use lots of (electric) energy, but not lots of water.

The volume of water used by any (normal*) kind of shower depends entirely on the rate of flow at the outlet and the duration of use. Nothing else.

(*Showers powered by a hydraulic ram (for example) will consume a larger volume of water in total, but I wouldn't consider these to be 'normal')

robatwork

What exactly is your pressure and flow rate in l/min?

We have a massive Megaflo but the incoming pressure is about 1.5 bar and by the time that's gone to the loft where the cylinder is, it's probably about 1 bar. It's really not enough to get a really good shower and the pressure at the taps is adequate but not great. 

Grenage

grumbler said:

Grenage said:

Bendy_House said:

Absolutely, Gren. But shower pumps like these are noisy, thrummy, gushy and generally a bit sh***y

Imo.

And they'll fire up whenever you run any tap. Urgh, nasty hateful things...

But, yes, an obvious temporary solution.

Oh, and they'll also blow GWS's shower attachment off his bath taps...

We inherited a shower pump with our unvented system.

Are you sure it was unvented?

Sorry, no. Whoopsy type.  Vented.

grumbler

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Why are electric showers so common then in houses with gravity systems?

And did anybody suggested an electric shower to the OP? IMO, it's a good option, especially if the water is expensive.

Because people love showers which use lots of water and energy?

You also stopped the quote just before I mentioned the pump....

I mean showers with mains pressure and electric heating, not power showers.

grumbler said:

Yes, they use lots of (electric) energy, but not lots of water.

The volume of water used by any (normal*) kind of shower depends entirely on the rate of flow at the outlet and the duration of use. Nothing else.

(*Showers powered by a hydraulic ram (for example) will consume a larger volume of water in total, but I wouldn't consider these to be 'normal')

I don't understand you point on 'normal'.

For an electric shower the flow is limited by the power available to heat the water to c.40C and the maximum flow is usually much lower than for a shower with mains pressure and combi boiler heating, especially in winter.

Bendy_House

Section62 said:

Bendy_House said:

And they'll fire up whenever you run any tap.

Only if installed by cowboy plumbers or dodgy DIYers who don't know what they are doing.

Ok, then - they'll fire up whenever you open up any tap in the bathroom.