Doctor's note for absence of less than 7 days

Jillanddy

If you look on ACAS's website, you will see that if you are unwell whilst on leave, you are entitled to take that as sick and not annual leave.

But only if you comply with the company's sickness policy and you didn't. If you read all the rest of the ACAS website, and not just the little bit you like, you will find that out, and you will also find out that employers are not obliged to accept backdated sicknotes; and also that if you are sick on any day, whether a working day or not, for it to count as sickness you must notify your employer as soon as possible (in accordance with whatever policy the employer has in place). So if you are sick on a Saturday and your workplace is closed at weekends you must notify them on Monday and tell them that you were sick from Saturday. 

I think you missed the bit where I said that rules (and laws) are not written based on what you may or may not do. They are written for everyone, and that includes you. You are really fortunate that your employer will even consider this - mine wouldn't and mine is a huge employer. I don't know many that would consider it. So if you want to do this you need to comply with what your employers are telling you they want, and suck up the cost because they are doing you a favour by doing something they don't have to do at all.

What you like or think is fair does not mean anything. What you would never do, or what you think the majority of people would never do is entirely irrelevant. Rules apply to everyone, not just to the people who like them.

TBagpuss

Yes, I think it is very common to have a sickness policy that requires you to actually call in sick, if you want to claim the time as sick leave. Certainly ours does. 

It sounds as though you have a choice. You can either pay for a sick note, and get the days counted as sick, or you can chose to leave them as holiday. 

74jax

skm1981 said:

Of course I didn't call in sick.  Why would?  I wasn't expected in.  
 ?  

I have never worked anywhere where I didn't have to call in sick (even if on holiday and I wanted sick leave instead of holiday leave) so I don't think it is a strange thing to do.

Does your sick policy state otherwise? 

skm1981

No the sickness policy doesn't state that.  They have 2 different policies, the absence policy and then there's another policy (not sure what that one is called) but the sickness policy states that you inform them if you are sick, the other one states if you are unwell whilst on annual leave, you must obtain medical evidence (nothing about informing them while you are on leave - and what difference would that make anyway?  They're not expecting me in, so why would I need to inform them that I'm not feeling well?).  All I can provide is a copy of the prescription I had, but they want a fit note.

68ComebackSpecial

skm1981 said:

No the sickness policy doesn't state that.  They have 2 different policies, the absence policy and then there's another policy (not sure what that one is called) but the sickness policy states that you inform them if you are sick, the other one states if you are unwell whilst on annual leave, you must obtain medical evidence (nothing about informing them while you are on leave - and what difference would that make anyway?  They're not expecting me in, so why would I need to inform them that I'm not feeling well?).  All I can provide is a copy of the prescription I had, but they want a fit note.

Is having your 2 days holiday reinstated worth £10/£15 to you? If yes - pay for the doctor's certificate. If no - stop griping and let it go. It's a completely reasonable request, and one which you were already made aware of via the policy documents.

Jillanddy

A prescription does not make you unfit for work. You can argue until you are blue in the face. You are legally not entitled to such pay or your holidays back unless you do as your employer has told you. 

74jax

skm1981 said:

No the sickness policy doesn't state that.  They have 2 different policies, the absence policy and then there's another policy (not sure what that one is called) but the sickness policy states that you inform them if you are sick, the other one states if you are unwell whilst on annual leave, you must obtain medical evidence (nothing about informing them while you are on leave - and what difference would that make anyway?  They're not expecting me in, so why would I need to inform them that I'm not feeling well?).  All I can provide is a copy of the prescription I had, but they want a fit note.

In answer to your question why do you need to inform them if you are feeling unwell. You don't need to inform them whilst on annual leave if you don't want to. You can carry on with your annual leave.

If you want sick leave then you inform them. The reason? Because you want sick leave, not annual leave so they need to know you are sick that day. And not just 'unwell' and carrying on with your holiday. 

Either pay for the doctors note or don't. What they are asking is perfectly reasonable. If financially its not worth it then don't bother. 

Undervalued

skm1981 said:

Jillanddy said:

I think it is unfair because had I not been on annual leave, I wouldn't have been required to obtain a doctor's note.

Sorry, but rules aren't made for you. They are made for everyone. And if everyone could go on holiday / leave and then claimed they were ill instead so get their holiday back, then everyone would do it. Basically it is not up to the employer to prove you were or weren't sick, it is up to you. Most employers I know (including my own) only allow it if you (a) follow the sickness policy to the letter even on holiday, and (b) have a sick note from day one. I am actually surprised they will even entertain this at all, after the event.

As an aside, I once had a member of staff who took the same holiday every year, for a month. He would be well for the first half of the holiday, then would have a (foreign) doctors sick note for the second half. Every. Single. Year. He thought managers were stupid. The second year it happened he was warned. The third year he was sacked. 

Well I certainly wouldn't pretend I'm ill every time I have annual leave unless I actually am, and I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't.  And, like I said, I've not had a day off sick in probably 2+ years now, and even when I do have a sick day, it is very rare.

If you look on ACAS's website, you will see that if you are unwell whilst on leave, you are entitled to take that as sick and not annual leave.

I don't see the difference between being sick while not on annual leave and being sick while on annual leave, apart from you'd need to inform your employer that you're not well if you were supposed to be working that day.  Hardly a big deal. 

 As I explained in my earlier post, the vast majority of company sick pay schemes are "discretionary"

So, yes you can ask for the days to be treated as sick leave but your employer is not obliged to pay you anything at all for the first three days and then only SSP (assuming you qualify for it) for the remainder of the sick days. The only exception would be if you have one on the few remaining hard and fast contractual sick pay schemes. Even then, whilst that takes away the employer's "discretion", you still need to comply with the terms and conditions to the letter which could include providing a private "sick note".