Doctor's note for absence of less than 7 days

skm1981

So I recently took annual leave, just a week.  I only work 2 days a week, and ended up being ill most of my leave with a UTI.  It was quite bad where I wouldn't have been able to work had I not been on annual leave.  I couldn't even leave the house to attend the doctors so had to have an appointment over the phone where they prescribed me with antibiotics.  

When I returned to work, I asked if I could change my leave to sick (so 2 days) but they have said I need a doctor's note.  I asked if I can self-certify, but they have said no.  Their usual policy is absences of 5 or less consecutive days doesn't require a doctor's note, more than 5 days, you have to self-certify, but because I'm trying to change my annual leave to sick, they require a doctor's note which my doctors will charge for and I can't claim the fee back from my company.  Can they do that?  It just seems really unfair.  I've not had any sick leave for at least 2 years now, so it's not like I'm a prolific offender for this, and I've never tried to claim annual leave back as sick.  Plus if I'd had a stomach bug, for example, I wouldn't have even contacted the doctors.  

Undervalued

skm1981 said:

So I recently took annual leave, just a week.  I only work 2 days a week, and ended up being ill most of my leave with a UTI.  It was quite bad where I wouldn't have been able to work had I not been on annual leave.  I couldn't even leave the house to attend the doctors so had to have an appointment over the phone where they prescribed me with antibiotics.  

When I returned to work, I asked if I could change my leave to sick (so 2 days) but they have said I need a doctor's note.  I asked if I can self-certify, but they have said no.  Their usual policy is absences of 5 or less consecutive days doesn't require a doctor's note, more than 5 days, you have to self-certify, but because I'm trying to change my annual leave to sick, they require a doctor's note which my doctors will charge for and I can't claim the fee back from my company.  Can they do that?  It just seems really unfair.  I've not had any sick leave for at least 2 years now, so it's not like I'm a prolific offender for this, and I've never tried to claim annual leave back as sick.  Plus if I'd had a stomach bug, for example, I wouldn't have even contacted the doctors.  

Yes they can and why do you think it is unfair?

Anything above SSP (which isn't payable for the first three days) is subject to your employer's terms and conditions. Plus in most cases these days company sick pay is "discretionary" rather than a hard and fast contractual right.

sammyjammy

Just suck it up, its unfortunate for you that you were poorly for the whole week but its really only the two days that you were due to work that matter.

Takeaway_Addict

skm1981 said:

So I recently took annual leave, just a week.  I only work 2 days a week, and ended up being ill most of my leave with a UTI.  It was quite bad where I wouldn't have been able to work had I not been on annual leave.  I couldn't even leave the house to attend the doctors so had to have an appointment over the phone where they prescribed me with antibiotics.  

When I returned to work, I asked if I could change my leave to sick (so 2 days) but they have said I need a doctor's note.  I asked if I can self-certify, but they have said no.  Their usual policy is absences of 5 or less consecutive days doesn't require a doctor's note, more than 5 days, you have to self-certify, but because I'm trying to change my annual leave to sick, they require a doctor's note which my doctors will charge for and I can't claim the fee back from my company.  Can they do that?  It just seems really unfair.  I've not had any sick leave for at least 2 years now, so it's not like I'm a prolific offender for this, and I've never tried to claim annual leave back as sick.  Plus if I'd had a stomach bug, for example, I wouldn't have even contacted the doctors.  

Did you call in sick each day as per what i presume would be the policy for sickness?

Sandtree

The rules on fit notes are not about the number of days work missed but the number of continuous days you were ill for. For part timers in general and people on holiday irrespective of hours this makes things complicated as you could have been ill for over 7 days but because of shift patterns you're only absent from work for a couple of days and so can claim it was a shorter period to avoid the necessity of a fit note.

I have certainly known some companies require a fit note when the number of days between your last shift before you were ill and the first shift back is over 7 calendar days to deal with the uncertainty of when you were really ill.

How long were you sick with your UTI? If it was over 7 days your GP shouldn't charge for a fit note.

[Deleted User]

Try and think of the positives. Least you protect your future reference if sickness should ever be a question in these days.

I found out an employment contract in a family business meant diddly squat. I've been battered into half notice which means my holiday I'll have worked for, for 6 months literally has ended up unsupported with wages when I could have had a month's notice but I wouldn't cancel holiday and I fondly imagine the Employer will forget to pay holiday after I go  - but - there are some awesome positives, dare I say it, aware life isn't fair and all that.  Well that's what I'll keep telling myself 

Savvy_Sue

Takeaway_Addict said:

Did you call in sick each day as per what i presume would be the policy for sickness?

This: for the OP, the only time I had to take to convert holiday to sickness I was very grateful that they didn't enforce that one, but on the other hand I did have all the notes from the Spanish ambulance and hospital where I'd spent twelve hours, and if they'd said 'no, you didn't phone in' I'd have accepted it. 

skm1981

Of course I didn't call in sick.  Why would?  I wasn't expected in.  

I was ill for 4 days, but taking the 2 days off anyway, I appreciate that would be the equivalent to a full week, as that is my working week, but if you're not on annual leave, you don't need a fit note unless you are off for more than 5 consecutive days.  So pro-rata, I wasn't off for more than this.  

I think it is unfair because had I not been on annual leave, I wouldn't have been required to obtain a doctor's note.  It states in my contract how many days of paid sick leave I get. 

Doctors are busy, especially combined with the pandemic.  So I now have to waste their time and mine getting a doctor's note, as well as paying for this when it's my employer that wants it.  I work for a huge company, they're not some small family business.

The thing is, I'm not someone that goes to the doctors unless it's absolutely necessary.  Say I had been off with a stomach bug or the flu and hadn't attended the doctors, how am I supposed to get a note then?  

I've told them that I'm happy for them to contact my doctor if they want it confirmed that I was prescribed antibiotics for a UTI, but they have said they can't do that because of data protection, but then what about under the freedom of information act, if I consent to them doing this?  

Sandtree

skm1981 said:
but then what about under the freedom of information act, if I consent to them doing this?  

Freedom of Information act only covers non-personal data from governmental and quasi governmental organisations. As a NHS service they are covered by the act but they cannot provide your personal data even with your permission under the act.

Outside of the FoI they can ask for your information with your consent but the surgery is under no obligation to provide it... insurers do this all the time when people want quotes for life insurance or are making a claim for sickness etc but those are well trodden paths and the surgery fees for providing the information are fairly steep. 

Jillanddy

I think it is unfair because had I not been on annual leave, I wouldn't have been required to obtain a doctor's note.

Sorry, but rules aren't made for you. They are made for everyone. And if everyone could go on holiday / leave and then claimed they were ill instead so get their holiday back, then everyone would do it. Basically it is not up to the employer to prove you were or weren't sick, it is up to you. Most employers I know (including my own) only allow it if you (a) follow the sickness policy to the letter even on holiday, and (b) have a sick note from day one. I am actually surprised they will even entertain this at all, after the event.

As an aside, I once had a member of staff who took the same holiday every year, for a month. He would be well for the first half of the holiday, then would have a (foreign) doctors sick note for the second half. Every. Single. Year. He thought managers were stupid. The second year it happened he was warned. The third year he was sacked. 

skm1981

Jillanddy said:

I think it is unfair because had I not been on annual leave, I wouldn't have been required to obtain a doctor's note.

Sorry, but rules aren't made for you. They are made for everyone. And if everyone could go on holiday / leave and then claimed they were ill instead so get their holiday back, then everyone would do it. Basically it is not up to the employer to prove you were or weren't sick, it is up to you. Most employers I know (including my own) only allow it if you (a) follow the sickness policy to the letter even on holiday, and (b) have a sick note from day one. I am actually surprised they will even entertain this at all, after the event.

As an aside, I once had a member of staff who took the same holiday every year, for a month. He would be well for the first half of the holiday, then would have a (foreign) doctors sick note for the second half. Every. Single. Year. He thought managers were stupid. The second year it happened he was warned. The third year he was sacked. 

Well I certainly wouldn't pretend I'm ill every time I have annual leave unless I actually am, and I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't.  And, like I said, I've not had a day off sick in probably 2+ years now, and even when I do have a sick day, it is very rare.

If you look on ACAS's website, you will see that if you are unwell whilst on leave, you are entitled to take that as sick and not annual leave.

I don't see the difference between being sick while not on annual leave and being sick while on annual leave, apart from you'd need to inform your employer that you're not well if you were supposed to be working that day.  Hardly a big deal.