Four more small energy firms could go bust next week (c. 20/09/21)

DiseasedBunny

So who is the likeliest bigger  company to go belly up? 

Bulb? Octopus? 

Sea_Shell

Maybe they'll all go, or up sticks and we'll be left with..... British Gas!!!



🎶"The needle returns to the start of the song and we all sing along like before" 🎶

wakeupalarm

Bulb is the 7th largest Energy supplier, so maybe we will be left with just the big 6,(big 5 +OctopusEnergy)

ChaunceyGardiner

I've been with So and Zog for years. I'll be sorry to see them go.

BUFF

ewokuk said:

I don't know what makes people think there can be any real competition in a marketplace where they all buy their energy from the same wholesale places.  These companies do not provide anything, they do not make anything, they don't build anything, where do you think their margins can come from?  You have wholesale energy, and you have customer support.  That's it.  I don't see how you can have a competitive marketplace when there IS no market, they are effectively all just middlemen in a single marketplace.  The whole thing should be re-nationalised and should never have been privatised in the first place.

Tbh that is the way that most markets work. You have a "manufacturer", you have a "wholesaler" tier(s) who by being able to buy in  larger quantities than an individual & "break bulk" can get a better price from the "manufacturer" & can then resell the product cheaper than the manufacturer would direct. There is competition between wholesalers though even of the same product.
Can you buy a car direct from e.g. Ford, a brick direct from Ibstock, a bathroom suite direct from Armitage Shanks or a tin of baked beans direct from Heinz etc.?

bristolleedsfan

Rocox said:

Wilt said:

Oh dear, bulb would be too big for any supplier to take on under the existing SoLR arrangements I bet - though if they are under pressure it wouldn't really surprise me. Their single tariff model, which is subject to the Ofgem price cap, isn't ideal at the moment.

No supplier is interested in taking on any new customers at the moment as each one is loss-making. According to the FT, the cost of buying enough wholesale gas and electricity in the spot market to supply an average household is estimated at about £1,600 a year, while the Ofgem-set price cap on energy bills is at present £1,277.

Most suppliers who offer variable and fixed rates have removed  variable rate as an option to new customers via online signup, they can charge what they want for fixed rates, they can market fixed rates at £1600+, Octopus currently £1551, 2 year fix, subject to regional variations, some are cheaper, others are more expensive

tghe-retford

wakeupalarm said:

Bulb is the 7th largest Energy supplier, so maybe we will be left with just the big 6,(big 5 +OctopusEnergy)

The BBC claims that Bulb is the sixth biggest energy supplier. So if the BBC is right, we're now into the big six.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58619418

ad1927

Bulb are looking for a bailout to avoid a collapse.  That would be massive, they have 1.5m customers, and make up 5% of the market.  They are also pushing green fuel and that will lead to a lot of green deniers drawing an illogical conclusion that a green energy firm were hit purely because fossil fuels went up in price.  

Gerry1

BUFF said:

ewokuk said:

I don't know what makes people think there can be any real competition in a marketplace where they all buy their energy from the same wholesale places.  These companies do not provide anything, they do not make anything, they don't build anything, where do you think their margins can come from?  You have wholesale energy, and you have customer support.  That's it.  I don't see how you can have a competitive marketplace when there IS no market, they are effectively all just middlemen in a single marketplace.  The whole thing should be re-nationalised and should never have been privatised in the first place.

Can you buy a car direct from e.g. Ford, a brick direct from Ibstock, a bathroom suite direct from Armitage Shanks or a tin of baked beans direct from Heinz etc.?

IIRC you can only buy a Tesla from Tesla.

UnclaimedEnergy

Rocox said:

Wilt said:

Oh dear, bulb would be too big for any supplier to take on under the existing SoLR arrangements I bet - though if they are under pressure it wouldn't really surprise me. Their single tariff model, which is subject to the Ofgem price cap, isn't ideal at the moment.

No supplier is interested in taking on any new customers at the moment as each one is loss-making. According to the FT, the cost of buying enough wholesale gas and electricity in the spot market to supply an average household is estimated at about £1,600 a year, while the Ofgem-set price cap on energy bills is at present £1,277.

Fixed tariffs can be more than the price cap as customers would choose to be on this.

Any supplier that has the cash to hedge the power for fixed customers will still be taking on new customers. Any that don't are in trouble.