Buying 2 properties one plot: mortgage/SDLT/planning/...

cryvate

lincroft1710 said:

cryvate said:

cryvate said:

Actually, reading https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/9/change_of_use it seems like it would *not* require planning permission, as the current use (office) and future use (dwelling) is within the same class? That seems a little too easy?

Actually it is going from E to C(3), which requires only prior approval and not planning. There are some conditions:

• transport impacts

• contamination and flooding risks

• impacts of noise from commercial premises on the intended occupiers of the residential use

• impact on the character or sustainability of the conservation area (if relevant)

• provision of adequate natural light for the residential use

• the impact on intended occupiers of the introduction of residential use in an area considered to be important for general or heavy industry, waste management, storage and distribution, or a mix of such uses (if relevant)

• impact on the adequate local provision of Nursery or Health Centre services (if relevant)

• the fire safety impacts on the intended occupants (if relevant)

I do not think these should be a problem, though it is in a conservation area but it would be a dwelling right next to the only other dwelling in the conservation area.

Some planning authorities do not like a second dwelling on an existing plot. Most will attach conditions such as the second dwelling cannot be sold separately from the main house, if it is in the nature of an annex 

The office/building is too small really to be a house/dwelling by itself anyway so this makes sense and the aim is not to make a property that can stand on its own. As the property is currently vacant and is not commercially viable as an office, I wonder whether that would help?

I have been trying to Google how to turn an existing building (not outbuilding) into an "annex" but from your post and my understanding so far, it seems that an annex is nothing but a dwelling (that might not be sold without the house but is subject to separate council tax).

Am I right in thinking the process would roughly be:

• Enter into contract to buy the office (and the house) subject to planning permission
• Get planning permission/prior approval for change of use to a dwelling (with restriction to be not sold separately etc. being ok)
• Buy the office (and house)
  
• At this stage, the office is an office still, but the planning permission/prior approval would have set some time frame (3 years) for executing on the plan to make it habitable/an acceptable dwelling

I have also been reading the "Change of Use" form and there are a couple of problems:

• This area does have flood risk (but the building was built for it/by those who manage it...)
• It is in a conversation area (again, makes me think annex would be more acceptable than separate dwelling) but no external work is necessary (I think)
• It currently doesn't have facilities for a dwelling (missing a kitchen + shower/bath room, does have running water + toilet) and so I guess in the prior approval form I have to have a plan to how the inside will look like.
  
• It is just about big enough to adhere to the National Space Standard, does this apply if it is an annex?

Should I get help to the planning permission/prior approval done? Is this the kind of thing where I get one shot or I can make an application (for ~100 pounds) and it might get shot down but get comments on why and iterate?

lincroft1710

30 sq m would be big enough to give you a living room, bedroom, kitchenette and shower room.

However, do you really need a kitchen? Incorporating the office into the house as extra accommodation (L/R, Bed, Shwr/WC) would be much simpler.

A planning application and building regulation approval is not cheap. Planning cost for an extension is £206, new dwelling £462. building regs plan submission is £100, plus further costs for inspection as work progresses. You are best employing an architect or architectural consultant who will know the ropes, draw plans and submit them for planning and BR approval. Their services are not cheap but are worth it. It may well be worth consulting one and explaining your intentions, they can give very useful help and guidance especially concerning the viability of your intentions.

cryvate

lincroft1710 said:

30 sq m would be big enough to give you a living room, bedroom, kitchenette and shower room.

However, do you really need a kitchen? Incorporating the office into the house as extra accommodation (L/R, Bed, Shwr/WC) would be much simpler.

A planning application and building regulation approval is not cheap. Planning cost for an extension is £206, new dwelling £462. building regs plan submission is £100, plus further costs for inspection as work progresses. You are best employing an architect or architectural consultant who will know the ropes, draw plans and submit them for planning and BR approval. Their services are not cheap but are worth it. It may well be worth consulting one and explaining your intentions, they can give very useful help and guidance especially concerning the viability of your intentions.

But that is the problem isn't it? Currently it is an office and so (legally) I do not think putting a bed in there and sleeping there wouldn't be legal. It probably already has a kitchen (area) but it is actually the shower/bathroom that is missing.

The advantage of the route I suggested is that it is Prior Approval as it is a Permitted Development (checking Article 4 directions with council: only source is 404) which is cheaper (£96) and has less strict standards (though we still need plans et cetera) + time limits. Will I need building regs plan permission before getting prior approval?

As you can see in the other thread, this is now all going ahead though waiting to hear back on at what valuations but once that is set, doing a consultation makes sense.

Section62

cryvate said:

Actually it is going from E to C(3), which requires only prior approval and not planning. There are some conditions:

I'm not sure the existing use qualifies as Class E.  Although part of the building has been used as an 'office', the overarching use has been transport related, rather than being specifically a "Commercial, Business and Service" use.

I'd expect the local planning authority to take the view the existing use is Sui generis.

However...

cryvate said:

I do not think these should be a problem, though it is in a conservation area but it would be a dwelling right next to the only other dwelling in the conservation area.

Being in a conservation area means it is likely an Article 4 Direction has been made which removes all/some permitted development rights.

Given the historical nature of the buildings I think it likely you would need to obtain full planning consent to incorporate the 'office' into the curtilage of a domestic dwelling.

There is a risk that - for conservation reasons - the planning authority might require the existing boundaries/demarcation between the buildings and uses to be retained, even if they allow residential use of the interior.

ProDave

This seems an ideal property for someone working from home, and there are more than just a few people doing that at the moment.

So rather than work from home in a spare bedroom, you "go out" to work to the other end of the garden.

I would have thought the house and office together would have been in demand for use as it is?

cryvate

Section62 said:

cryvate said:

Actually it is going from E to C(3), which requires only prior approval and not planning. There are some conditions:

I'm not sure the existing use qualifies as Class E.  Although part of the building has been used as an 'office', the overarching use has been transport related, rather than being specifically a "Commercial, Business and Service" use.

I'd expect the local planning authority to take the view the existing use is Sui generis.

However...

cryvate said:

I do not think these should be a problem, though it is in a conservation area but it would be a dwelling right next to the only other dwelling in the conservation area.

Being in a conservation area means it is likely an Article 4 Direction has been made which removes all/some permitted development rights.

Given the historical nature of the buildings I think it likely you would need to obtain full planning consent to incorporate the 'office' into the curtilage of a domestic dwelling.

There is a risk that - for conservation reasons - the planning authority might require the existing boundaries/demarcation between the buildings and uses to be retained, even if they allow residential use of the interior.

The owner applied for and obtained planning permission for a change of use to an Office (and the appropriate general class at the time) and there has been no subsequent change. Furthermore, the building itself was never really Sui generis: it's official use before was a store room.

In regards to the "curtilage", the weird thing is, it is already inside the, effective, curtilage of the (relevant) side of the house: it makes up 70% of the front "fence" and one of its exits onto the front garden and one of the "shed"s I have access to while renting is actually part of the office (but with the connecting door hole blocked), so in fact there are two doors from the office exiting into this property.

As @ProDave said, leaving it as an office is in itself not a problem, but I would like to rework the building to be more useful and include a bedroom/sleeping facilities. Due to its size, the fact it is its own property  with history, business rates, ... (though currently on one big title) I do not see how it can be turned into anything but a Dwelling, unless I apply for it to become a Sui Generis of "kinda office kinda house"?

@ProDave: I think these 2 in combination would be popular, but that is not how they are marketed (and would be unusual, as commercial and AST leases are quite different legally) and now, fortunately, the owner is going to give me right of first refusal on the half of the cottage I live in (I guess, giving its lack of rental potential, would have to evict me before they could sell it, and that would take a while if I refused to leave), and I think, on its own, the office won't be popular, so hoping to snag that up as well.

Yes, I think this could be an amazing opportunity, but there are potential pitfalls, and hence I am here. This is not the "run of the mill" property in any way.

cryvate

I have actually, finally, heard back from the planning authority, and there are no Article 4 restrictions in place, so doing Permitted Development from office to dwelling would be possible, assuming I could pass all the hurdles.

I am not quite at this stage yet, but if I wanted to speak to somebody on getting this together, who would that be? This is related to my other question: this PD has a time limit of 2 years from vacancy. Would that be that to the Prior Approval, to the start of work, when it can be used in its new use case or when the work mentioned in Prior approval is fully complete?