Buying 2 properties one plot: mortgage/SDLT/planning/...

eddddy

If the mortgage valuer agrees that the "office" is ancillary to the house, I guess that should be ok for residential mortgage purposes. But that might be difficult if the "office" has planning consent for commercial use.

For mortgage application purposes, it might be better to describe the "office" as a Games Room, Laundry Room, Guest Bedroom, Summer House, Garden Room, Garden Store or even Home Office.

cryvate

SDLT_Geek said:

Slithery said:

SDLT_Geek said:

Do I read this correctly that the house is currently rented out, but the tenancy does not include the office, which was previously leased for business use but is now vacant?

Are you expecting to buy the house with vacant possession or subject to the tenancy?

According to the OP's other posts on the same subject they are the current tenant.

LISA + mortgage buying 2 properties

Valuation while renting quant property from public body

Well spotted.  So OP rents a semidetached cottage next to a lockkeepers cottage, with an office adjoining, in a rural area, all owned by a public authority.

Rough values given are £425,000 for the cottage and £100,000 for the office.

That's right, except the semidetached cottage *is* the (old) lockkeepers' cottage (apparently there were 2 at the time, it was not split later). 

cryvate

SDLT_Geek said:

SDLT for buying a dwelling only for £425,000 with first time buyers' relief would be £6,250.

SDLT for buying a dwelling with an office (not on the garden or grounds) for £525,000 would be £15,750.

The office is definitely adjacent to the garden (it is not "on it", in so much as it is a pretty permanent building, but I am sure if it wasn't there, the land would be part of the garden/our plot).

How do you get that £15,750? I cannot make the maths add up. 

Note that, as I am sure you have all surmised, none of this happening before the stamp duty holiday ends!

cryvate

The SDLT is good to know, but isn't going to swing the deal one way or another.

In regards to planning, it was originally used by the public body until ~2008 as a store room (and probably something else longer ago) and then converted to be an office with some minor outside work done (and I assume more inside) and then used as an office on and off until now.

Would it be possible to apply for planning permission *before* acquiring the property to convert it into a dwelling or outhouse, or can that only be done by the owner? (How would "converting it to an outhouse" even work, I guess it is the equivalent of merging 2 dwellings?).

Any "conversion" to dwelling or outhouse would be internal work as it's got plenty of windows, doors etc at least from my point of view. Maybe converting to outhouse would be better/easier? I am not looking into turning it into a proper dwelling to sell or rent out separately later.

It sounds like, considering the mortgage, it would be better to have the planning permission in place, so I can be upfront, I guess saying it is a "Home Office" is accurate, but long term we want it to be more than that, and it is more than an outhouse, especially as it has a public frontage.

cryvate

SDLT_Geek said:

cryvate said:

...

Do I read this correctly that the house is currently rented out, but the tenancy does not include the office, which was previously leased for business use but is now vacant?

Are you expecting to buy the house with vacant possession or subject to the tenancy?

I agree with user1977 that, so long as you have the one seller, it does not matter how many registered titles there are.

When it comes to negotiation, my thinking is that the owner is kind of stuck with us. The rental yield is low (but market rate I would say) and so I think it is unlikely they could sell it at this valuation as BTL and a buyer who wants to live there would insist on vacant possession, which would take a while if we stuck our heels down.

The owner has sold another similar property and they had to take a massive cut on their original listed price (40%) and only selling it years later, so I am not sure they are keen on doing that again.

user1977

cryvate said:

Would it be possible to apply for planning permission *before* acquiring the property to convert it into a dwelling or outhouse, or can that only be done by the owner?

Anybody can apply for planning permission for anybody's property. The norm would be to first enter into a contract conditional on you obtaining planning, otherwise you're investing time/money in the planning application at the risk of the vendor running off with the valuable consent once it's granted.

SDLT_Geek

cryvate said:

SDLT_Geek said:

SDLT for buying a dwelling only for £425,000 with first time buyers' relief would be £6,250.

SDLT for buying a dwelling with an office (not on the garden or grounds) for £525,000 would be £15,750.

The office is definitely adjacent to the garden (it is not "on it", in so much as it is a pretty permanent building, but I am sure if it wasn't there, the land would be part of the garden/our plot).

How do you get that £15,750? I cannot make the maths add up. 

Note that, as I am sure you have all surmised, none of this happening before the stamp duty holiday ends!

SDLT on say £525,000 at mixed use rates is calculated as:
0% on first £150,000 =  £       0
2% on next £100,000 = £ 2,000
5% on rest £275,000 = £13,750
Total                              £15,750

It does very much sound like mixed use property if bought "as is" with the existing office.

cryvate

Actually, reading https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/9/change_of_use it seems like it would *not* require planning permission, as the current use (office) and future use (dwelling) is within the same class? That seems a little too easy?

cryvate

cryvate said:

Actually, reading https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/9/change_of_use it seems like it would *not* require planning permission, as the current use (office) and future use (dwelling) is within the same class? That seems a little too easy?

Actually it is going from E to C(3), which requires only prior approval and not planning. There are some conditions:

• transport impacts

• contamination and flooding risks

• impacts of noise from commercial premises on the intended occupiers of the residential use

• impact on the character or sustainability of the conservation area (if relevant)

• provision of adequate natural light for the residential use

• the impact on intended occupiers of the introduction of residential use in an area considered to be important for general or heavy industry, waste management, storage and distribution, or a mix of such uses (if relevant)

• impact on the adequate local provision of Nursery or Health Centre services (if relevant)

• the fire safety impacts on the intended occupants (if relevant)

I do not think these should be a problem, though it is in a conservation area but it would be a dwelling right next to the only other dwelling in the conservation area.

lincroft1710

cryvate said:

cryvate said:

Actually, reading https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/9/change_of_use it seems like it would *not* require planning permission, as the current use (office) and future use (dwelling) is within the same class? That seems a little too easy?

Actually it is going from E to C(3), which requires only prior approval and not planning. There are some conditions:

• transport impacts

• contamination and flooding risks

• impacts of noise from commercial premises on the intended occupiers of the residential use

• impact on the character or sustainability of the conservation area (if relevant)

• provision of adequate natural light for the residential use

• the impact on intended occupiers of the introduction of residential use in an area considered to be important for general or heavy industry, waste management, storage and distribution, or a mix of such uses (if relevant)

• impact on the adequate local provision of Nursery or Health Centre services (if relevant)

• the fire safety impacts on the intended occupants (if relevant)

I do not think these should be a problem, though it is in a conservation area but it would be a dwelling right next to the only other dwelling in the conservation area.

Some planning authorities do not like a second dwelling on an existing plot. Most will attach conditions such as the second dwelling cannot be sold separately from the main house, if it is in the nature of an annex