Buyer Fraud - Bank Refund?

SPLIT64

I'm desperately looking for help and advice please...

My wife and I are looking to remortgage next year and were recently advised by our broker to reduce our existing borrowing before applying in order to boost our chances of being offered a better interest rate.

So, early last month I advertised my wife's very expensive road bike for sale on eBay and Facebook Marketplace to pay off her credit card debt and shortly after I was contacted by a gentleman via Facebook Messenger, interested in purchasing the bike.
As we were planning on visiting friends in Scotland the following week, we arranged with the buyer to stop en route at an address he provided and therefore save ourselves the cost and risks of trying to ship it via courier.

When we arrived at the buyers property, he checked the bike over and transferred the monies directly to my wife's personal account via bank transfer from his Halifax account.
When we returned from our trip a couple of days later, we used the funds (as planned) to pay off the credit card and requested that the account be closed.

Fast forward to just over a fortnight ago and whilst trying to log on to her online Lloyds account, my wife discovered that she'd been locked out of her account!

After a LOT of hassle, phone calls and visits to the bank and speaking with Action Fraud, submitting a DSAR to CIFAS, we were able to determine that the transfer was flagged up as suspicious activity (presumably as we'd almost immediately moved the funds straight back out to repay the card?) and that the funds had been returned back to the 'buyers' Halifax account.

At present, we've been unable to find out whether this is due to a fraudulent chargeback being requested by the legal owner of the Halifax account, or whether the person who we dealt with has actually paid for the bike using stolen bank details!

We've forwarded all of our messages and the buyers contact details etc. on to Action Fraud and also to Lloyds Bank (who were initially treating us as if my wife were part of the fraud!). After a VERY thorough and lengthy complaint letter was sent to the bank (including original purchase receipts etc.) to prove that our side of the sale was legitimate and that we were in legal possession of the bicycle, Lloyds have finally reinstated access to her account but haven't refunded her the £2500 that was returned to the Halifax.

Action Fraud appear now to be saying that the bank aren't obliged to refund us. Any other advice we've been able to find online all relate to businesses being victims of buyer fraud rather than a private individual!

So, my question is, are the bank obliged to refund the money we've lost and do I have a case to be able to take this to the Financial Ombudsman to appeal their decision?

y3sitsm3

SPLIT64 said:

I'm desperately looking for help and advice please...

My wife and I are looking to remortgage next year and were recently advised by our broker to reduce our existing borrowing before applying in order to boost our chances of being offered a better interest rate.

So, early last month I advertised my wife's very expensive road bike for sale on eBay and Facebook Marketplace to pay off her credit card debt and shortly after I was contacted by a gentleman via Facebook Messenger, interested in purchasing the bike.
As we were planning on visiting friends in Scotland the following week, we arranged with the buyer to stop en route at an address he provided and therefore save ourselves the cost and risks of trying to ship it via courier.

When we arrived at the buyers property, he checked the bike over and transferred the monies directly to my wife's personal account via bank transfer from his Halifax account.
When we returned from our trip a couple of days later, we used the funds (as planned) to pay off the credit card and requested that the account be closed.

Fast forward to just over a fortnight ago and whilst trying to log on to her online Lloyds account, my wife discovered that she'd been locked out of her account!

After a LOT of hassle, phone calls and visits to the bank and speaking with Action Fraud, submitting a DSAR to CIFAS, we were able to determine that the transfer was flagged up as suspicious activity (presumably as we'd almost immediately moved the funds straight back out to repay the card?) and that the funds had been returned back to the 'buyers' Halifax account.

At present, we've been unable to find out whether this is due to a fraudulent chargeback being requested by the legal owner of the Halifax account, or whether the person who we dealt with has actually paid for the bike using stolen bank details!

We've forwarded all of our messages and the buyers contact details etc. on to Action Fraud and also to Lloyds Bank (who were initially treating us as if my wife were part of the fraud!). After a VERY thorough and lengthy complaint letter was sent to the bank (including original purchase receipts etc.) to prove that our side of the sale was legitimate and that we were in legal possession of the bicycle, Lloyds have finally reinstated access to her account but haven't refunded her the £2500 that was returned to the Halifax.

Action Fraud appear now to be saying that the bank aren't obliged to refund us. Any other advice we've been able to find online all relate to businesses being victims of buyer fraud rather than a private individual!

So, my question is, are the bank obliged to refund the money we've lost and do I have a case to be able to take this to the Financial Ombudsman to appeal their decision?

Either the latter or falsely claiming to be the victim of fraud.  You can't charge back bank transfers.

SPLIT64

Apologies, I'm not overly familiar with the correct banking terminology, but either one of those circumstances are what we have been led to believe have happened.
Lloyds have returned the transferred funds to Halifax so my wife's account is now overdrawn.

MalMonroe

You can also report this to Facebook. Is the buyer of your bike still on there? Even if not FB should still be able to trace them.

Have you tried to contact the buyer to ask them what on earth is going on? FB should really have a responsibility to people who use their marketplace to sell goods.

I suspect that it is as you suspect, a fraudulent chargeback being requested by the legal owner of the Halifax account. Apparently that happens a lot on FB. But the way FB 'helps' is to advise people to accept payment in cash - which is NOT always possible.

If that was indeed the buyer's property that you visited, then you know where he lives so you can report this theft to the police, which I would do without further delay. You'll then get a crime number which can be used when making all claims. You could also send some 'heavies' round (no, only joking there!) 

You obviously have proof of the sale so you can go forward from there. 

Might be a bit late now but here is mse's own advice about selling and buying on FB. 

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/facebook-selling/

Scroll down to number 13.

As for the bank, if they have given you their full and final answer then yes, you do have a case to take to the FO. Which you can do online. But you do have to wait for their final response before doing so. 

Please don't let those 'buyers' get away with keeping your bike AND your money! 

SPLIT64

Thanks for the reply - unfortunately the buyer is no longer on Facebook, which leads us to believe the buyer used a stolen account. It was reported to Facebook at the time but I'm guessing it has since disappeared in to a bottomless pile of other cases with the standard "we'll investigate and get back to you" response.

The address and contact numbers were all passed to Action Fraud who have provided us with a crime reference number and have informed us the details of the case would be transferred to the police.

I will double check the wording of the banks response to my wife, but it seems the Ombudsman service may be the way forward.

kaMelo

You have my sympathies but it would appear you've been scammed. This is a well known trick used on facebook which is why insisting on cash on delivery/collection is the only truly safe method. People assume a bank transfer is without risk but unfortunately it's not as you've found out.
You can't chargeback bank transfers, only debit/credit card transactions.  With that in mind it would appear that the person who bought your wife's bike has paid for it from a compromised/hacked bank account and when the owner of that account has seen the transaction and not recognised it as one they made they have complained to their bank. Their bank has contacted your wife's bank to put a hold on the funds and investigate the case, ultimately returning the funds to the original compromised account.
It's impossible to say whether the original account owner was complicit in this or totally innocent and the bank(s) will not tell you anyway. 
After investigating and you supplying the proof you have I would expect the bank will see you were an innocent victim in this. I'd still urge you to complain but unless there is evidence of negligence from your wife's bank, such as they already knew or suspected the account from which the money was paid to you was compromised before they accepted payment, then I wouldn't get any hopes up of being refunded although your bank may do so as a good will gesture, hence why it's important to complain in the first instance.


If non of that works then I would suspect your only real course of action is to report them and take action through the courts but that will require a name and somewhere to send the LBA. Do you know the buyer's real name and address? did you meet at their home or a public place. Without that information it's tough to see what else you can do.

robatwork

SPLIT64 said:

When we returned from our trip a couple of days later, we used the funds (as planned) to pay off the credit card and requested that the account be closed.

Can you just explain the bit of your story that I quoted?  I read it to mean you closed your bank account for some reason.

eskbanker

robatwork said:

SPLIT64 said:

When we returned from our trip a couple of days later, we used the funds (as planned) to pay off the credit card and requested that the account be closed.

Can you just explain the bit of your story that I quoted?  I read it to mean you closed your bank account for some reason.

Given the context, it seems clear to me that it's the newly paid off credit card account that was being closed:

SPLIT64 said:

My wife and I are looking to remortgage next year and were recently advised by our broker to reduce our existing borrowing before applying in order to boost our chances of being offered a better interest rate.

So, early last month I advertised my wife's very expensive road bike for sale on eBay and Facebook Marketplace to pay off her credit card debt....

SPLIT64

robatwork said:

SPLIT64 said:

When we returned from our trip a couple of days later, we used the funds (as planned) to pay off the credit card and requested that the account be closed.

Can you just explain the bit of your story that I quoted?  I read it to mean you closed your bank account for some reason.

Yes, exactly as eskbanker says, I should have made that clearer.

We paid the outstanding balance on the credit card and requested the card company close the account. Presumably when my wife's bank investigated the fraudulent transaction it would have appeared to them that she'd moved the money straight out of her account and to a credit card account that was closed almost immediately after.

Thank you for your replies, our complaint has now been forwarded to the FOS. Fingers crossed we can get some assistance from them!