Tenants won't leave property we're buying..

Pixie5740

Tatters26 said:

So update.

Today arrived. They haven't gone and gold stars to those who got it right! The Section 21 is invalid on a couple of points, so effectively they're still there with no eviction given at all.

I realise this is an expensive lesson for us both as FTB, but should the seller's solicitor or even estate agent (who forwarded us the "eviction" notice back in June) have picked up on this? Or is this not their job? 

I just think if you're an estate agent selling a property, the seller says he's evicted his tenants and they're serving notice and sends the EA the letter as proof, I'd like to think the EA would immediately say "this isn't valid, you need to send them X and Y" and we could've not wasted time on this?

The Section 21 on its own is unlikely to indicate that it’s not valid. You’d also need to know how and when the deposit was protected, annual gas safety certificates, right to rent checks, etc. lots of things will make the notice invalid but you’d need a lot of additional information to determine that. 

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/eviction/section_21_eviction/how_to_check_a_section_21_notice_is_valid

Edit to add:

A section 21 is not an eviction notice. It’s notice that the landlord might go to court to get a possession order. Even if the Section 21 had been valid that wouldn’t have been the end of it if the tenants didn’t want to move. 

This could have gone all the way to court before the landlord found out. 

MaryNB

Tatters26 said:

So update.

Today arrived. They haven't gone and gold stars to those who got it right! The Section 21 is invalid on a couple of points, so effectively they're still there with no eviction given at all.

I realise this is an expensive lesson for us both as FTB, but should the seller's solicitor or even estate agent (who forwarded us the "eviction" notice back in June) have picked up on this? Or is this not their job? 

I just think if you're an estate agent selling a property, the seller says he's evicted his tenants and they're serving notice and sends the EA the letter as proof, I'd like to think the EA would immediately say "this isn't valid, you need to send them X and Y" and we could've not wasted time on this?

If the S21 was valid there still wouldn't have been an eviction. The S21 is a notice seeking possession, it is not an eviction order.

The agent or landlord cannot evict the tenants without a court order. All the S21 was was a notice from the landlord saying they want the property back. If it was valid and had expired the tenants were still fully within their rights to stay living there with a fully valid Tenancy agreement. The expiration of a valid S21 only means the landlord can then apply to the court for an eviction order.
If the S21 was valid you were still a very long way from an eviction.

TripleH

My sympathies to you Tatters26.

I see nothing to indicate this is not a massive rooster up by the landlord.

I'm sorry you have wasted money on this (I have done that recently but in different circumstances). It might now be the time to walk away, relax for the rest of the week and maybe start afresh on Saturday.

I expect there may well be properties coming back on the market on Friday that failed to meet the stamp duty window so don't give up hope just yet.

lookstraightahead

Sorry Tatters. 

I always say to my daughter, enjoy things while you still like people as some day you will become old and cynical.

lookstraightahead

HampshireH said:

Tatters26 said:

GDB2222 said::

If it were me in your position, I would try one last throw of the dice:

1. I'd reduce my offer for the property by £5k.

2. I would tell the sellers that I will offer the tenants that  £5k in cash if they will move out in one week, so the purchase goes ahead.

3. I would suggest to the sellers that it would actually be more sensible that they offer the tenants £5k to move out, in which case you'll go ahead at the agreed price.

Obviously, adjust the £5k figure appropriately, so as to make the tenants think more than twice before rejecting it, but you don't have to set them up for life. 

Also, given the sunk costs you have had, you might offer to contribute £1-2k on top of the £5k, out of your pocket.  The worst that happens is that your seller tells you to get lost.

I think as a roll of the dice at the end we would suggest this, might as well ask. It may be that they cannot take it but I'd rather they turned it down than it wasn't offered. I wouldn't be sure what best way to do it, in terms of getting the money to them but that's a question I guess if they'll accept it. 

If offering cash I would suggest offering to pay the forward deposit (and one month's rent or whatever) directly to the estate agent and the rest after they have given vacant possession.

Or the total sum upon giving vacant possession.

I wouldn't be giving them any cash payment before they have followed through on leaving.

Regardless, £5k may sound appealing but not if there isn't anywhere on the market for then to rent that's suitable

Would you move out of your home for £5k.

lookstraightahead

newsgroupmonkey_ said:

lookstraightahead said:

GDB2222 said:

Tatters26 said:

I'm resigned to it not going ahead, we both are. I'm hoping that the tenants do find something themselves, the EA seems convinced they are "nice people" and are genuinely looking, as opposed to not looking and waiting for council,  but we'll have to wait and see. It's just so up in the air and you have zero power or control as the buyer, and also a lack of visibility. It's just a case of waiting for the phone to ring. 

I'm really sorry, but I've skipped several pages of this thread, so you may have already considered the following:

If it were me in your position, I would try one last throw of the dice:

1. I'd reduce my offer for the property by £5k.

2. I would tell the sellers that I will offer the tenants that  £5k in cash if they will move out in one week, so the purchase goes ahead.

3. I would suggest to the sellers that it would actually be more sensible that they offer the tenants £5k to move out, in which case you'll go ahead at the agreed price.

Obviously, adjust the £5k figure appropriately, so as to make the tenants think more than twice before rejecting it, but you don't have to set them up for life. 

Also, given the sunk costs you have had, you might offer to contribute £1-2k on top of the £5k, out of your pocket.  The worst that happens is that your seller tells you to get lost.

How will £5k help them? 

If they can't afford the deposit for a private rental, £5k would go a long way!

Where does it say they haven't got any money?

or are you assuming because they rent they are poor? 

Owleyes00

@Tatters26 you have my sympathies I expect you are gutted. What an incredibly enraging situation for you. I agree if the tenants are showing no signs of going willingly it’s time to look at a different house. 

Tatters26

Owleyes00 said:

it’s time to look at a different house. 

3 viewings booked for tomorrow, 2 are empty and ready to be purchased if they're right. We have to be careful not to panic-buy or just buy anything we see, but properties are still out there and 2 of these 3 are particularly nice. One is in the "worth-viewing" category.

In regards to the S21 info people have asked, I was just told by EA that what was sent to the tenants "wasn't valid and done correctly" and the seller/ landlord has now been advised how to issue it correctly. I haven't seen documents or know the in's and outs. I did see a letter a few weeks ago that was very basic, stating they want the property back on 28th Sept. 

GoogleMeNow

Tatters26 said:

Owleyes00 said:

it’s time to look at a different house. 

3 viewings booked for tomorrow, 2 are empty and ready to be purchased if they're right. We have to be careful not to panic-buy or just buy anything we see, but properties are still out there and 2 of these 3 are particularly nice. One is in the "worth-viewing" category.

In regards to the S21 info people have asked, I was just told by EA that what was sent to the tenants "wasn't valid and done correctly" and the seller/ landlord has now been advised how to issue it correctly. I haven't seen documents or know the in's and outs. I did see a letter a few weeks ago that was very basic, stating they want the property back on 28th Sept. 

Just make sure that you check whether the empty properties are being sold by executors and, if so, whether the Grant of Probate has been issued yet.   If the properties are empty because the tenants have already vacated, then that's good!

As a previous poster pointed out, the S21 doesn't end the tenancy whether valid or not.  It would not benefit you even if the landlord did issue it correctly.  You would still have to wait until the tenants were evicted by the courts.

gettingtheresometime

lookstraightahead said:

HampshireH said:

Tatters26 said:

GDB2222 said::

If it were me in your position, I would try one last throw of the dice:

1. I'd reduce my offer for the property by £5k.

2. I would tell the sellers that I will offer the tenants that  £5k in cash if they will move out in one week, so the purchase goes ahead.

3. I would suggest to the sellers that it would actually be more sensible that they offer the tenants £5k to move out, in which case you'll go ahead at the agreed price.

Obviously, adjust the £5k figure appropriately, so as to make the tenants think more than twice before rejecting it, but you don't have to set them up for life. 

Also, given the sunk costs you have had, you might offer to contribute £1-2k on top of the £5k, out of your pocket.  The worst that happens is that your seller tells you to get lost.

I think as a roll of the dice at the end we would suggest this, might as well ask. It may be that they cannot take it but I'd rather they turned it down than it wasn't offered. I wouldn't be sure what best way to do it, in terms of getting the money to them but that's a question I guess if they'll accept it. 

If offering cash I would suggest offering to pay the forward deposit (and one month's rent or whatever) directly to the estate agent and the rest after they have given vacant possession.

Or the total sum upon giving vacant possession.

I wouldn't be giving them any cash payment before they have followed through on leaving.

Regardless, £5k may sound appealing but not if there isn't anywhere on the market for then to rent that's suitable

Would you move out of your home for £5k.

What into another home that I could be potentially be evicted from through no fault of my own? Nope.