Armageddon for flat owners - PAS 9980 even worse than EWS1 fiasco?!

NameUnavailable

Gavin83 said:

Even if this is relatively easy to sort and lenders don’t refuse to lend (both quite unlikely) it’s still likely to devalue flats significantly. Would anyone here choose to buy a flat knowing the next big issue is just waiting around the corner? Thought not.

There is nothing that would encourage me to buy a flat at the moment. I’d rather rent.

I'm in the process of buying a flat right now. I'm seriously considering pulling out.

I can't afford a house in the same (or even near) area around Brighton, so it would mean renting or buying in another county - houses sell for similar in parts of Kent, Rochester/Gillingham or Maidstone.

I purposely looked for a flat with minimal issues - low rise, no cladding etc., and it's shared freehold so that's the only thing making me pause at the moment as 'we' will at least be in control to some degree.

But, having spent 5 years battling with a very unreasonable freeholder at my last place whose actions had made the place impossible to sell, I really don't want to end up in another mess.

seven-day-weekend

NameUnavailable said:

[Deleted User] said:

seven-day-weekend said:

So, every single  flat in England is, at this present moment, worthless?

Or is this scaremongering?

Unless it's already had the survey and work done, yes.

Not quite.

If the flat has cladding and hasn't yet had an EWS1 survey, or has had a survey and needs works then it's not going to be mortgageable.

This latest guidance relates to ALL flats regardless of construction and if it is accepted as the standard then mortgage co's aren't going to lend without seeing the results of the survey and where necessary the remedials works have been carried out (as with EWS1).

So yes, there is a very good risk that ALL flats will become worthless in terms of lenders security until they have had surveys/works done.

We have two flats in our family.  Both are low rise  (three storey) and neither has cladding.  Both are purpose built (with bricks) ; one was built in the 1960s and the other in 2014.

So why should they need any remedial work done?  They haven't got any cladding!

Flats in both blocks still appear to be selling at a decent price.

Crashy_Time

Gavin83 said:

Even if this is relatively easy to sort and lenders don’t refuse to lend (both quite unlikely) it’s still likely to devalue flats significantly. Would anyone here choose to buy a flat knowing the next big issue is just waiting around the corner? Thought not.

There is nothing that would encourage me to buy a flat at the moment. I’d rather rent.

Good point, flats with potential issues will have to start dropping their price to sell.

safvoxi

NameUnavailable said:

This isn't (just) about cladding. PAS9980 isn't about cladding. The article you mention was published months ago, the article I mentioned was last week so it appears things have developed somewhat, and not in a positive way.

I think the Times/Linkedin article was written by the CEO of a cladding company who is providing his expert views on the issues he sees with the new standards. Nothing has been published yet and the consequences are currently unknown.

Of course, the implementation of EWS1 and the government incompetence so far has been ridiculous, and it’s possible that there may be an “Armageddon for flat owners” but until we know the facts, why speculate, and worry unnecessarily?

I’m also in the early stages of buying a flat and when I fist read through this thread, I thought about pulling out. But I’m also in a position where buying a freehold house is unaffordable so I have little choice in what I can do. I’m going to carry on with the purchase but its not something I’d recommend anyone else do unless they were okaywith the risks/worse case scenerio.

Raneynickel4

Will PAS 9980 affect flats that were converted from houses? Im in the process of buying a flat in a converted victorian terraced house and I'm wondering if it's even still worth it at this point... 

user1977

Raneynickel4 said:

Will PAS 9980 affect flats that were converted from houses? Im in the process of buying a flat in a converted victorian terraced house and I'm wondering if it's even still worth it at this point... 

Yes - see first paragraph of the OP...

NameUnavailable

seven-day-weekend said:

NameUnavailable said:

[Deleted User] said:

seven-day-weekend said:

So, every single  flat in England is, at this present moment, worthless?

Or is this scaremongering?

Unless it's already had the survey and work done, yes.

Not quite.

If the flat has cladding and hasn't yet had an EWS1 survey, or has had a survey and needs works then it's not going to be mortgageable.

This latest guidance relates to ALL flats regardless of construction and if it is accepted as the standard then mortgage co's aren't going to lend without seeing the results of the survey and where necessary the remedials works have been carried out (as with EWS1).

So yes, there is a very good risk that ALL flats will become worthless in terms of lenders security until they have had surveys/works done.

We have two flats in our family.  Both are low rise  (three storey) and neither has cladding.  Both are purpose built (with bricks) ; one was built in the 1960s and the other in 2014.

So why should they need any remedial work done?  They haven't got any cladding!

Flats in both blocks still appear to be selling at a decent price.

Yes it will affect you - it's not about cladding, it's about the integral fire safety of the building. What is behind the brick facade? Is it fire proof insulation? Are there sufficient fire breaks (for current standards, not the standards when built), does it need any updating to make it more fire proof? Remedial construction work? New fire doors? Sprinkler systems? Scaffolding to do this...........

bouicca21

No it will only affect 7dayweekend and other flat owners if the draft turns into official guidance unchanged.  Until then it’s just fear-mongering for the sake of it.

Crashy_Time

bouicca21 said:

No it will only affect 7dayweekend and other flat owners if the draft turns into official guidance unchanged.  Until then it’s just fear-mongering for the sake of it.

Why would the media "fear-monger" about property?

seven-day-weekend

NameUnavailable said:

seven-day-weekend said:

NameUnavailable said:

[Deleted User] said:

seven-day-weekend said:

So, every single  flat in England is, at this present moment, worthless?

Or is this scaremongering?

Unless it's already had the survey and work done, yes.

Not quite.

If the flat has cladding and hasn't yet had an EWS1 survey, or has had a survey and needs works then it's not going to be mortgageable.

This latest guidance relates to ALL flats regardless of construction and if it is accepted as the standard then mortgage co's aren't going to lend without seeing the results of the survey and where necessary the remedials works have been carried out (as with EWS1).

So yes, there is a very good risk that ALL flats will become worthless in terms of lenders security until they have had surveys/works done.

We have two flats in our family.  Both are low rise  (three storey) and neither has cladding.  Both are purpose built (with bricks) ; one was built in the 1960s and the other in 2014.

So why should they need any remedial work done?  They haven't got any cladding!

Flats in both blocks still appear to be selling at a decent price.

Yes it will affect you - it's not about cladding, it's about the integral fire safety of the building. What is behind the brick facade? Is it fire proof insulation? Are there sufficient fire breaks (for current standards, not the standards when built), does it need any updating to make it more fire proof? Remedial construction work? New fire doors? Sprinkler systems? Scaffolding to do this...........

In both blocks the ground floor flats have a front and a back door/s to the outside ( the more modern flat is ground floor).  The upper flats in the 60s block (our son's is top floor of three) , have patio doors with safety railings to the outside.   The newer flats have  patio doors opening onto safety-glass enclosed balconies (self-contained) on the upper floors.  You could throw a mattress out and jump on it if you wished.  Many houses don't have access to the outside from the second floor.

The older block  has just had remedial works putting in new sprinklers and fire doors.  I think the modern block already has them.

Couldn't tell you about insulation in the older block, it probably doesn't have any.  I presume the new block has 2014 regulatory insulation.

Old block like this :  https://i.pinimg.com/474x/03/e9/01/03e901ee348fb60108f907aea348624c--fence-posts-sliding-doors.jpg

New block like this:https://media.rightmove.co.uk/dir/2k/1583/55343407/1583_WVH313837_IMG_01_0000_max_656x437.JPG