Wedding Venue Refusing to Refund Money Owed Due to 'Damages'

fantalemon1

Hi,

I'm completely lost as to what to do next in regards to the below so any help/guidance would be extremely appreciated.

At the beginning of July me and my wife got married and as there was still covid restrictions in place we had to reduce guest numbers and cut many aspects which after some back and forth we managed to begrudgingly agree on a discount of approx £3000 on what we had paid. It felt like the venue were trying every trick in the book to keep the cost as high as possible and reduce the refund but eventually after being told our guests would not be refunded for their booked hotel rooms if we were to change the date again we agreed and accepted the £3000 rebate which we were told would be returned after the wedding.

Following the wedding night we were collared by the master of ceremonies from the previous day who ushered us to the lobby room and showed us a pin hole with an approx 1cm tear in one of the individual slates of one of the sets of blinds in there (this was my fault i stupidly pinned a flag to it not expecting or even registering that this may cause damage) and were told we would have to pay for this, which we happily agreed as even though it was minor it was my fault and off we went.

Several hours later i was called from the venue director (who'm we had the difficulties trying to re-negotiate the rate for the wedding based off the new guest numbers etc) who told me about how the damage was unacceptable etc etc and that not only did we have to pay for that individually blind, but we would have to pay for the whole blind and every other set of blinds in the room to be replaced as the company who put them in '4/5 years ago' were now out of business so they would not be able to source the same material, she stated that when they did it last time it cost between £4-5000. In addition to this there was a stain on one of our guests bedrooms floor we would have to pay for and there was a smell of smoke in another guests bedroom as though they had been smoking to they would not be able to sell that room. Naturally this all made me feel sick to my stomach and was whilst we were on our spa day/1 night stay out for our honeymoon so i tried my best to enjoy it but it was all in the bank of my mind.

Anyway i woke up about 5am the next morning unable to sleep because of the worry and started googling about what can be done and found out our wedding insurance may cover it, so we got in touch with them to start that process.

About a week later we were emailed from the venue with our bill, it was approx £2900 to replace all the blinds (this was an official quote from an outside company), We were given a hand-typed quote in the email regarding the stain on the carpet (they said this needed to be removed and completely replaced, including underlay etc) and came to £525 and because of the smell in one of the rooms, they were unable to sell that room, plus the two rooms nearest it, for 2 nights, at a cost of £105 per room per night so another £630 was owed there. As they owed us £3000 they then asked how we will be making the remaining £1055 payment to them.

To cut the rest of it short, the wedding insurance have paid them in full for the blinds, but told us we are not legally liable for the remaining £1155 for the 'damage' to the rooms so that was not settled. I explained this to the venue but they said it is in there terms and conditions of our signed wedding contract that we must pay it. The terms and conditions explicitly states:

'The wedding couple are responsible to *venue name* for the cost to make good any damage caused by themselves, guests or suppliers. This may include the building internally and externally, furniture, grounds or employees' 

So my first question would be therefore based on the above do we have no grounds to try and claim any of the money back for this?

The second point would be that the couples who's room had the stain in (both aged over 60) said they hadn't noticed any major stain and they had perhaps just knocked a drink over, we offered to pay for it to be cleaned but the venue were having non of it and insisted the carpet be removed in its entirety. With regards to the smell, the rate of £105 is for wedding nights, there was no wedding the Sunday or Monday following ours, in which rooms are charged at £65 per night and with no wedding being on and still being under covid restrictions i would highly doubt they would have sold every room anyway, plus why would we need to pay for the rooms which were near the one that smelt of smoke?!

It all feels like they were trying to do everything they can to get more money, i mentioned about the negotiations for the reduced rate and it feeling like this and i will give a couple of examples of that now to illustrate it. As we could no longer have our previous package, the venue had to create a 'bespoke' package in which every item was charged individually, this included welcome drinks at £6.70 each. The male guests welcome drink was a bottle of Peroni which was sold behind the bar on the day at £4.80 each. The second example was that the classes of wine were also now charged at 2 x £6.70, the original quote for an extra glass of wine was at £4.90 per glass, when i queried this i was told it was now more expensive as we had originally paid at 2019 prices and Brexit factors had also increased the price. I stupidly accepted this and didn't question further but have since looked at the website which is currently advertising for weddings in 2021 still with the wine glass price at £5.95 and 2022 prices at £5.50 per glass.

Basically to summarise, they are unwilling to return the remaining £1155 and we don't know what to do next if anyone could please guide us or even just to tell us to cut our losses as it was our guests fault, anything would be much appreciated.

Thanks for taking the time to read 

Luke

HampshireH

What does the contract say?

Re the carpet I can't see how they can claim betterment. A clean yes of course. Presumably you have been furnished with photos of before the event and then after with the stain on to evidence their allegations?

Your friend must remember if they split their drink.

fantalemon1

Thank you for your reply, the contract states:

'The wedding couple are responsible to *venue name* for the cost to make good any damage caused by themselves, guests or suppliers. This may include the building internally and externally, furniture, grounds or employees' 

We have received no photographs or any evidence, we just have the venue owners word that there was a stain. The stain in the room was from an elderly uncle & aunt who said it was possible they spilt a coffee on the night when they retired to their room but as they had had a bit to drink, they didn't remember this happening or notice anything obvious on the floor in the morning.

Thanks

HampshireH

If it were me I'd be asking the following

*Evidence of no stain and then evidence of the stain (at the very least the latter) on the carpet

*I would have expected to be given the option to reattend the hotel to witness the smoke. Or send someone on your behalf if you were away.

Their claim could be completely without foundation.

The wine issue is irrelevant as you accepted the increased costs.

The blinds I would have tried to find another supplier to make the one but that's paid now so lucky them they got a new upgrade.

You will likely need to sue through the small claims for your money back

Undervalued

fantalemon1 said:

'The wedding couple are responsible to *venue name* for the cost to make good any damage caused by themselves, guests or suppliers. This may include the building internally and externally, furniture, grounds or employees' 

So my first question would be therefore based on the above do we have no grounds to try and claim any of the money back for this?



Luke

Only if either.....

Nobody in your party was responsible for the damage.

or

The amounts being charged to make good the damage are excessive.


Depending on the type of hotel the fixtures and fittings may well cost a great deal more than you would pay for an average domestic product.

also

A repair that might be acceptable in a domestic or budget hotel environment may not be acceptable in a more up market establishment where guests tend to expect everything to be pristine. 

fantalemon1

Undervalued said:

fantalemon1 said:

'The wedding couple are responsible to *venue name* for the cost to make good any damage caused by themselves, guests or suppliers. This may include the building internally and externally, furniture, grounds or employees' 

So my first question would be therefore based on the above do we have no grounds to try and claim any of the money back for this?



Luke

Only if either.....

Nobody in your party was responsible for the damage.

or

The amounts being charged to make good the damage are excessive.


Depending on the type of hotel the fixtures and fittings may well cost a great deal more than you would pay for an average domestic product.

also

A repair that might be acceptable in a domestic or budget hotel environment may not be acceptable in a more up market establishment where guests tend to expect everything to be pristine. 

Thank you for your response, the rooms were definitely occupied by members of our party so we have no qualms there.

We are definitely leaning towards the charges being excessive. It feels like they are trying to take advantage of our good nature and expect us to be happy to just let it slide, which we probably would normally if it wasn't for this really strong feeling that they are taking advantage and we don't believe this to be fair.

It is a 3* best western hotel so definitely isn't the most extravagant of places.

I'm inclined to follow what Hampshire has said next and ask for evidence of the stain and evidence that they were unable to sell the rooms, if this can be provided by them then, unless the stain is absolutely horrific, i will try yet again to see if they are willing to come to a compromise and offer to pay cleaning costs again and offer to pay the rooms they couldn't sell at the non-wedding rate of £65 per night. 

If there is still no further compromise then put a claim in.

gizmo111

Who actually booked and paid for the rooms? I would take this 'The wedding couple are responsible to *venue name* for the cost to make good any damage caused by themselves, guests or suppliers. This may include the building internally and externally, furniture, grounds or employees'    as being the parts of the venue that you booked and paid for, not the guest rooms.

Ganga

I presume the rooms were non smoking and if some of your guests have been smoking in the rooms then i would be asking them for a contribution of the room costs .

sheramber

I agree with Ganga. 

if a guest was smoking in a no smoking room then they should pay. Smoke drifts and the smell may have carried into other rooms nearby.  My husband was very sensitive to smoke which caused his eyes to start watering. We had to leave a B&B due to this. One of the family smoked,  despite it being advertised a s'no smoking'.but the small was in the bedroom.

Malthusian

If the wedding insurance covers your accidental damage to the blinds, then if there was other accidental damage, does it not cover that as well?

If I understand your post correctly the insurer has said it would, but they think the venue is trying it on as it's either made up or normal "wear and tear", so they're not paying.

In which case you should tell the venue to take it up with the insurer.

I struggle to believe that the insurer would say that you aren't responsible for the hotel's costs incurred by smoke damage. (If there are no costs that's another thing.) The insurer sounds on firmer ground when saying that a coffee stain is not grounds to replace an entire carpet and underlay.

T.T.D

Sounds like this venue is trying to get you to refurbish its premises in my opinion.

The venue is not entitled to betterment.