Trouble leaving a joint tenancy, any advice appreciated

canaldumidi

Some of the advice here is incorrect...!

tourist4ever said:

Some of the advice here is incorrect. 

If you have signed up on an AST with joint and several liability ie three tenants on one AST this means you need to make a decision as a WHOLE not per PERSON.   Correct

You cannot serve notice automatically, the LL must accept a sharer in your place   Incorrect. A landlord can vet any new tenant and then accept or refuse them.

and usually the way it would work is the person who is leaving will find a new tenant and be held liable for the tenancy until new agreement with the future sharer is signed. Yes but that assumes the future tenant is granted either a new tenancy or a Variation to the existing tenancy.

But if two tenants would like to leave its best to make a joint decision for everyone to leave. Correct  If you wish to go with tenant swaps you would need to approach the agent if this is a fully managed property as the landlord would need to approve this, be prepared to pay the minimum £50 per person for admin. 

Given that 2 (of 3?) joint tenants wish to leave, the best solution is for the tenancy to end with the fixed term, and the remaining tenant to start a brand new tenancy with one or two new joint tenants. Whether he/they can afford the rent is not your problem!

MaryNB

canaldumidi said:

Some of the advice here is incorrect...!

tourist4ever said:

Some of the advice here is incorrect. 

If you have signed up on an AST with joint and several liability ie three tenants on one AST this means you need to make a decision as a WHOLE not per PERSON.   Correct

You cannot serve notice automatically, the LL must accept a sharer in your place   Incorrect. A landlord can vet any new tenant and then accept or refuse them.

and usually the way it would work is the person who is leaving will find a new tenant and be held liable for the tenancy until new agreement with the future sharer is signed. Yes but that assumes the future tenant is granted either a new tenancy or a Variation to the existing tenancy.

But if two tenants would like to leave its best to make a joint decision for everyone to leave. Correct  If you wish to go with tenant swaps you would need to approach the agent if this is a fully managed property as the landlord would need to approve this, be prepared to pay the minimum £50 per person for admin. 

Given that 2 (of 3?) joint tenants wish to leave, the best solution is for the tenancy to end with the fixed term, and the remaining tenant to start a brand new tenancy with one or two new joint tenants. Whether he/they can afford the rent is not your problem!

The first bit of tourist4ever's post isn't entirely correct. When the OP's joint tenancy becomes periodic they alone can serve notice to end the tenancy. They do not need the agreement from the other tenants. All tenants have to move out at the end of the notice unless they sign a new agreement with the landlord.
The alternative is of course a change of sharer which all parties must agree to.

Sistergold

I am now confused about the advise being given? Why can’t OP give notice now that he will not stay a day longer than the agreed term? This can not be true surely that OP NEEDS to stay till start of rolling tenancy to give a months notice? I believe OP can give notice even now that he will be moving out 22nd and will not renew? 

OP I think it’s best not to meddle in other peoples business by getting replacement or stress about giving notices? You are free to leave and they should be the ones to make arrangements for new sharer as you don’t know what kind of replacement they want. Also if you can not find replacement you will start stressing and you will not be in control of your own arrangements. Your duty is to be honest and tell them that you will be leaving, their duty is to make whatever arrangements they want with current landlord or new landlord with or without another person to replace you.

you need to make sure you are not part of the new arrangements even if it means they all have to move out as you don’t want your name hanging incase they don’t pay their rent long after you are gone.  

canaldumidi

Sistergold said:

I am now confused about the advise being given? Why can’t OP give notice now that he will not stay a day longer than the agreed term?

Because the contract is between 'The landlord - Mr Receive-the-Rent' and 'The Tenant - Mr Pay1, Mr Pay2 and Mr Pay3'

If 'The Tenant' does not leave at the end of the fixed term AST, a periodic AST arises. And since 'The Tenant' is Mr P1, Mr P2 & Mr P3, all 3 must leave to avoid the periodic tenancy.

And if a periodic tenancy does arise, it will be in the same names as the preceeding fixed term.

This can not be true surely that OP NEEDS to stay till start of rolling tenancy to give a months notice?

It would be a legal nonsense to be able to give notice to end a tenancy before that tenancy even exists.

So notice to end the periodic AST cannot be served till the periodic AST starts, which is the day after the fixed term ends.

I believe OP can give notice even now that he will be moving out 22nd and will not renew? Unfortunately not, as explained in the 3 pages of posts above.

OP I think it’s best not to meddle or stress about your situation? You are free to leave abs they should be the ones to make arrangements for new sharer as you don’t know what kind of replacement they want. Also if you can not find replacement you will start stressing and you will not be in control of your own arrangements. Your duty is to be honest and tell them that you will be leaving, their duty is to make whatever arrangements they want with current landlord or new landlord. 

The OP is, of course, free to leave. Today, at the end of the fixed term, or any other date. But 'leaving' does not end legal liability as a joint tenant for rent, property damage etc.

That is why helpting the other joint tenants fnd a suitable replacement is in OP's best interests as that facilitates either the current tenancy being ended/replaced, or an assignment taking place.

MaryNB

Sistergold said:

I am now confused about the advise being given? Why can’t OP give notice now that he will not stay a day longer than the agreed term? This can not be true surely that OP NEEDS to stay till start of rolling tenancy to give a months notice? I believe OP can give notice even now that he will be moving out 22nd and will not renew? 

OP I think it’s best not to meddle in other peoples business by getting replacement or stress about giving notices? You are free to leave and they should be the ones to make arrangements for new sharer as you don’t know what kind of replacement they want. Also if you can not find replacement you will start stressing and you will not be in control of your own arrangements. Your duty is to be honest and tell them that you will be leaving, their duty is to make whatever arrangements they want with current landlord or new landlord with or without another person to replace you.

you need to make sure you are not part of the new arrangements even if it means they all have to move out as you don’t want your name hanging incase they don’t pay their rent long after you are gone.  

It is true if not all tenants want to leave. All tenants must agree to give notice to end the joint tenancy at the end of the fixed term. Only once the tenancy becomes periodic can a single tenant end the joint tenancy.

OP may be physically free to leave the property at the end of the fixed term but they will still be liable for bills and rent if they don't get agreement from all tenants to end it at the end of the fixed term. 

The tenant is stressed about leaving and the advice to help find a sharer was a way to keep things amicable with the other tenants. If a change of sharer arrangement is not agreed, all the other housemates will have to leave the property at the end of the notice period. Some want to stay. 
Yes, the tenant is under no obligation to find a replacement if notice is given during the period phase but as someone who has left a joint tenancy in the past I would say a change of sharer is the preferable option.

Slithery

Sistergold said:

I am now confused about the advise being given? Why can’t OP give notice now that he will not stay a day longer than the agreed term? This can not be true surely that OP NEEDS to stay till start of rolling tenancy to give a months notice? I believe OP can give notice even now that he will be moving out 22nd and will not renew?

First of all no notice is needed if all of the tenants leave at the end of the fixed term so giving it now would be irrelevant. If there was a break clause then during the fixed term all tenants need to give notice, it's only after the end of the fixed term that notice can be given by one person. You have to remember that all tenants in a joint tenancy are regarded in law as a single party. If just one of them stays past the end date then the tenancy contnues as-is with all of them still being liable for the full rent.

Have you read...

Ending/renewing an AST

Sistergold

MaryNB said:

Sistergold said:

I am now confused about the advise being given? Why can’t OP give notice now that he will not stay a day longer than the agreed term? This can not be true surely that OP NEEDS to stay till start of rolling tenancy to give a months notice? I believe OP can give notice even now that he will be moving out 22nd and will not renew? 

OP I think it’s best not to meddle in other peoples business by getting replacement or stress about giving notices? You are free to leave and they should be the ones to make arrangements for new sharer as you don’t know what kind of replacement they want. Also if you can not find replacement you will start stressing and you will not be in control of your own arrangements. Your duty is to be honest and tell them that you will be leaving, their duty is to make whatever arrangements they want with current landlord or new landlord with or without another person to replace you.

you need to make sure you are not part of the new arrangements even if it means they all have to move out as you don’t want your name hanging incase they don’t pay their rent long after you are gone.  

It is true if not all tenants want to leave. All tenants must agree to give notice to end the joint tenancy at the end of the fixed term. Only once the tenancy becomes periodic can a single tenant end the joint tenancy.

OP may be physically free to leave the property at the end of the fixed term but they will still be liable for bills and rent if they don't get agreement from all tenants to end it at the end of the fixed term. 

The tenant is stressed about leaving and the advice to help find a sharer was a way to keep things amicable with the other tenants. If a change of sharer arrangement is not agreed, all the other housemates will have to leave the property at the end of the notice period. Some want to stay. 
Yes, the tenant is under no obligation to find a replacement if notice is given during the period phase but as someone who has left a joint tenancy in the past I would say a change of sharer is the preferable option.

Thank you I now understand the technicality. In that case if I were OP I would stay to the end then just give the required notice. OP has given  the others a lot of time to also decide what they would then want to do. At this point nothing wrong with all parties discussing with landlord whatever they want to do? 

canaldumidi

Slithery said:

Sistergold said:

I am now confused about the advise being given? Why can’t OP give notice now that he will not stay a day longer than the agreed term? This can not be true surely that OP NEEDS to stay till start of rolling tenancy to give a months notice? I believe OP can give notice even now that he will be moving out 22nd and will not renew?

Have you read...

Ending/renewing an AST

Excellent post, though I worry that it has not been updated for a year, so is missing recent changes in the law....