Trouble leaving a joint tenancy, any advice appreciated

greatsquarenetwork

TripleH said:

greatsquarenetwork said:

Yes, I can't imagine they'd be happy with paying double rent either! I think what I'll do is offer to help find another housemate, but again I feel like I'd be trapped if they're not happy with any of the housemates I suggest, or if I'm not able to find one. I guess it is what it is. Thanks for the advice, appreciate it

You are leaving at the end of a fixed term period not in the middle, you are not leaving them in the lurch.

Sometimes it is better to not live with friends, living habits eventually grate and can ruin friendships. This is life not a scripted American sitcom.

In London I worked with plenty of people who lived for a year then moved on for lots of reasons, this is a new and potentially painless situation. You could all have fallen out 1 month in.

Don't let them pressure you into remaining because they don't want to change their setup. It will end badly as you will start resenting them and cracks appear in your relationship.

See this is what I was thinking, it's not my responsibility and I feel like I'm being pressured into helping them. I guess I need to accept that this could ruin friendships but I need to prioritise myself.

I've just found out from Shelter that the earliest I could potentially move out is 21st November not 21st October (since notice cannot be served on the 1st day of a periodic tenancy.) I've made peace with that, that would give the housemates 10 weeks which IMO is more than enough time.

I feel like I'm going around in circles, one minute I feel like I should be helping them and the next I'm saying it's not my job!! Really don't know what to do. Genuinely wouldn't want to live in this house if things get nasty, there's no locks on the bedroom doors or anything which makes me feel really uncomfortable now. But surely 10 weeks is enough time...

Slithery

greatsquarenetwork said:
I've just found out from Shelter that the earliest I could potentially move out is 21st November not 21st October (since notice cannot be served on the 1st day of a periodic tenancy.)

That is incorrect. Notice can be served on a periodic tenancy on the first day to end on the first day of the next monthly period (Crate v Miller 1947). Read...
Ending/renewing an AST

saajan_12

Between you and LL: 
You agreed to a joint & several tenancy, which comes with a strong expectation of the co-tenants acting as a unit. As long as you want the same things, there's a lot of protection for tenants ie long eviction process if you want security, or 1 period notice to leave if you want flexibility (on a SPT at least). To leave, you all have to leave as a unit either at end of fixed term or upon expiry of notice. Otherwise you all are jointly & severally liable for any double rent / court costs / damages. 

Between you and other tenants: 
The difficulty arises when you and other tenants don't want the same things and you don't have a clear agreement between you.
* From their perspective, the agreement was for a stable place to live, why should they have to help you find a replacement tenant to take over your obligation or go through the upheaval of moving just because you want to.
* From your perspective, the agreement was for a place to live that's flexible after 1 year, why should you have to find a co-tenant for them or be stuck there just because they want to stay. 

Ideally, you would write up a simple agreement between the tenants, that you'd split the rent X ways, leave with X notice, circumstances when you can serve notice. Then if someone breaches that eg leaves early and causes double rent, then they pay the extra. Or if someone refuses to leave after you agree to terminate, then they pay any further rent. 

greatsquarenetwork said:

TripleH said:

greatsquarenetwork said:

Yes, I can't imagine they'd be happy with paying double rent either! I think what I'll do is offer to help find another housemate, but again I feel like I'd be trapped if they're not happy with any of the housemates I suggest, or if I'm not able to find one. I guess it is what it is. Thanks for the advice, appreciate it

You are leaving at the end of a fixed term period not in the middle, you are not leaving them in the lurch.

Sometimes it is better to not live with friends, living habits eventually grate and can ruin friendships. This is life not a scripted American sitcom.

In London I worked with plenty of people who lived for a year then moved on for lots of reasons, this is a new and potentially painless situation. You could all have fallen out 1 month in.

Don't let them pressure you into remaining because they don't want to change their setup. It will end badly as you will start resenting them and cracks appear in your relationship.

See this is what I was thinking, it's not my responsibility and I feel like I'm being pressured into helping them. I guess I need to accept that this could ruin friendships but I need to prioritise myself.

I've just found out from Shelter that the earliest I could potentially move out is 21st November not 21st October (since notice cannot be served on the 1st day of a periodic tenancy.) I've made peace with that, that would give the housemates 10 weeks which IMO is more than enough time.

I feel like I'm going around in circles, one minute I feel like I should be helping them and the next I'm saying it's not my job!! Really don't know what to do. Genuinely wouldn't want to live in this house if things get nasty, there's no locks on the bedroom doors or anything which makes me feel really uncomfortable now. But surely 10 weeks is enough time...

theartfullodger

You can leave any time you like - e.g. 18:37 this evening.  But you remain liable for (as does any joint tenant), each of you, for ALL the rent.

Suggest negotiation with other joint tenants and landlord.  

Good luck!

greatsquarenetwork

Between you and other tenants: 
The difficulty arises when you and other tenants don't want the same things and you don't have a clear agreement between you.
* From their perspective, the agreement was for a stable place to live, why should they have to help you find a replacement tenant to take over your obligation or go through the upheaval of moving just because you want to.
* From your perspective, the agreement was for a place to live that's flexible after 1 year, why should you have to find a co-tenant for them or be stuck there just because they want to stay.

That basically sums up the difference in our positions to a tee. It was a stable place to live, up until the fixed term ended, by definition its no longer fixed so why they have assumed it to be that way really isn't my fault, but I can see why they would be upset by my decision.

Ideally, you would write up a simple agreement between the tenants, that you'd split the rent X ways, leave with X notice, circumstances when you can serve notice. Then if someone breaches that eg leaves early and causes double rent, then they pay the extra. Or if someone refuses to leave after you agree to terminate, then they pay any further rent.

Apologies but I don't understand this. They're not going agree to saying "whoever stays pays" because they are the only one who would stay, seeing as I am certainly leaving. There's no agreement to terminate, any single person can serve notice on the entire tenancy once the fixed term is up, right? I don't see how I have any leverage, they could in theory just decide to stay and I will be stuck paying for this house forever???

greatsquarenetwork

theartfullodger said:

You can leave any time you like - e.g. 18:37 this evening.  But you remain liable for (as does any joint tenant), each of you, for ALL the rent.

Suggest negotiation with other joint tenants and landlord.  

Good luck!

Thanks for the well wishes. I'm not sure what there is to negotiate. I spoke to them last night and it seems that one of the other housemates has also decided to leave. The guy who wants to stay wants to find a new housemate and start a new tenancy with just the 2 of them for the entire property, which I think will be very tough as it would be expensive. I told him I can help looking but I genuinely don't think I'll be able to find one. I also told him that I'm planning on serving notice to quit in October (ending the tenancy on 23rd November) as that's enough notice in my eyes (11 weeks!).

We have not spoken to the landlord about the situation at all yet. Do you think its worth involving him in the conversation? The property is managed through an agency who seem to care very little about anything other than recieving the rent.

[Deleted User]

Another housemate deciding to leave is great news for you. It is clearly best for everyone to leave at the same time. Too much hassle to replace two tenants. Make clear to anyone faffing about that you are going  to issue written notice binding on everyone.

tourist4ever

Some of the advice here is incorrect. 

If you have signed up on an AST with joint and several liability ie three tenants on one AST this means you need to make a decision as a WHOLE not per PERSON. You cannot serve notice automatically, the LL must accept a sharer in your place and usually the way it would work is the person who is leaving will find a new tenant and be held liable for the tenancy until new agreement with the future sharer is signed. But if two tenants would like to leave its best to make a joint decision for everyone to leave. If you wish to go with tenant swaps you would need to approach the agent if this is a fully managed property as the landlord would need to approve this, be prepared to pay the minimum £50 per person for admin. 

MaryNB

tourist4ever said:

Some of the advice here is incorrect. 

If you have signed up on an AST with joint and several liability ie three tenants on one AST this means you need to make a decision as a WHOLE not per PERSON. You cannot serve notice automatically, the LL must accept a sharer in your place and usually the way it would work is the person who is leaving will find a new tenant and be held liable for the tenancy until new agreement with the future sharer is signed. But if two tenants would like to leave its best to make a joint decision for everyone to leave. If you wish to go with tenant swaps you would need to approach the agent if this is a fully managed property as the landlord would need to approve this, be prepared to pay the minimum £50 per person for admin. 

Once the tenancy becomes periodic only one tenant has to give notice to end a joint tenancy. In this scenario all the tenants should move out by the end of the notice. It complicates things if the other tenants refuse to move out but it doesn't take away from OP's right to unilaterally give notice to end the tenancy once it becomes rolling. 

In the case of a change of sharer, yes it must be done in agreement with all tenants and the landlord. At the end of the fixed term all tenants must agree to end the tenancy. 

Slithery

tourist4ever said:

...the LL must accept a sharer in your place...

This is incorrect. The LL is under no obligation to provide a deed of variation.