UPS import duties agreed to be paid by sender & being chased by ControlAccount

evansguy123

Aylesbury_Duck said:

evansguy123 said:

But how do I know (and become liable) for any import costs if I am not informed of them by the courier at delivery time?  What is stopping me from shipping parcels from the US to the UK, the courier delivering them and subsequently invoicing the poor recipients?!

Because you are liable by law.  It's a responsibility you agree to assume when you import goods.

Nothing's stopping you from shipping parcels from the US to the UK, but why on earth would you do that unless someone was buying from you as a US supplier?

As an individual, you accept a parcel from UPS.  At that point in time you may well not know where the parcel is from, i.e. you don't know whether you are inadvertently importing goods or not.  I'm struggling to understand how you can become liable for import duties simply by accepting delivery of a parcel - surely the courier has to at least inform you that by accepting this particular parcel that you will become liable.

However, you're the third person to tell me I'm wrong so I'm clearly missing something!  I'd be really grateful if someone could point me at the legislation so I could understand in more detail.

Regarding the hypothetical shipping of goods from the US to the UK, I could ship an empty box to someone I want to annoy, claim it has a high value and then they become liable for a bunch of import duties that they only find out about much later.

y3sitsm3

evansguy123 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

evansguy123 said:

But how do I know (and become liable) for any import costs if I am not informed of them by the courier at delivery time?  What is stopping me from shipping parcels from the US to the UK, the courier delivering them and subsequently invoicing the poor recipients?!

Because you are liable by law.  It's a responsibility you agree to assume when you import goods.

Nothing's stopping you from shipping parcels from the US to the UK, but why on earth would you do that unless someone was buying from you as a US supplier?

As an individual, you accept a parcel from UPS.  At that point in time you may well not know where the parcel is from, i.e. you don't know whether you are inadvertently importing goods or not.  I'm struggling to understand how you can become liable for import duties simply by accepting delivery of a parcel - surely the courier has to at least inform you that by accepting this particular parcel that you will become liable.

However, you're the third person to tell me I'm wrong so I'm clearly missing something!  I'd be really grateful if someone could point me at the legislation so I could understand in more detail.

Regarding the hypothetical shipping of goods from the US to the UK, I could ship an empty box to someone I want to annoy, claim it has a high value and then they become liable for a bunch of import duties that they only find out about much later.

Surely the simple answer is to refuse to accept parcels that you have no idea the origin of?

But this is a bit of a pointless side discussion. You did know where the parcel was from, you knew it would attract duty/VAT you just had an agreement that the seller would cover it. Well, they've broken the agreement so you need to take it up with them. It's none of UPS's concern.

evansguy123

OK thanks, I will chase the seller.

I probably wouldn't be so irate about this if 

1. UPS had been consistent in their comms to me between their delivery and re-delivery attempt
2. UPS actually invoiced me and chased that invoice.  Instead of which they passed on my details onto a debt management company when I wasn't even aware that the seller hadn't honoured what they told me they would do.
3. The debt management company (ControlAccount) didn't even both to include a copy of the invoice in their original demand  and take weeks to respond to any query doesn't help either.

Ho hum!

sheramber

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad

sheramber

I think there would be two transactions. the first was the duty incurred when the parcel first came into the country. If you refused it , it would be returned to the seller but the original charge would still be outstanding.

The second transaction would be when the parcel was sent again with the duty paid by the seller.. so no further charge due.

 UPS would have no way of linking both transactions.

noitsnotme

evansguy123 said:

Hmm ok.  Can you point me at the relevant legislation because this seems crazy!

Yes, here you go…

Section 105, part 3 of the Postal Services Act 2000...

”(3)Duties (whether of customs or excise) charged on imported goods or other charges payable in respect of postal packets to which this section applies (whether payable to a postal operator or to a foreign administration) may be recovered by the postal operator concerned and in England and Wales and Northern Ireland may be so recovered as a civil debt due to him.”

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/26/section/105

visidigi

noitsnotme said:

evansguy123 said:

Hmm ok.  Can you point me at the relevant legislation because this seems crazy!

Yes, here you go…

Section 105, part 3 of the Postal Services Act 2000...

”(3)Duties (whether of customs or excise) charged on imported goods or other charges payable in respect of postal packets to which this section applies (whether payable to a postal operator or to a foreign administration) may be recovered by the postal operator concerned and in England and Wales and Northern Ireland may be so recovered as a civil debt due to him.”

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/26/section/105

Doesn't apply to couriers. They aren't postal operators.

noitsnotme

visidigi said:

noitsnotme said:

evansguy123 said:

Hmm ok.  Can you point me at the relevant legislation because this seems crazy!

Yes, here you go…

Section 105, part 3 of the Postal Services Act 2000...

”(3)Duties (whether of customs or excise) charged on imported goods or other charges payable in respect of postal packets to which this section applies (whether payable to a postal operator or to a foreign administration) may be recovered by the postal operator concerned and in England and Wales and Northern Ireland may be so recovered as a civil debt due to him.”

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/26/section/105

Doesn't apply to couriers. They aren't postal operators.

Interesting. Some couriers carry ‘post’ for businesses, even though Royal Mail do the ‘last mile’ of the delivery.  What specifically defines Royal Mail as a postal operator but excludes couriers?

user1977

visidigi said:

noitsnotme said:

evansguy123 said:

Hmm ok.  Can you point me at the relevant legislation because this seems crazy!

Yes, here you go…

Section 105, part 3 of the Postal Services Act 2000...

”(3)Duties (whether of customs or excise) charged on imported goods or other charges payable in respect of postal packets to which this section applies (whether payable to a postal operator or to a foreign administration) may be recovered by the postal operator concerned and in England and Wales and Northern Ireland may be so recovered as a civil debt due to him.”

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/26/section/105

Doesn't apply to couriers. They aren't postal operators.

Says who? DHL tried arguing they weren't, and lost:

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/dhl-v-ofcom.pdf

washingclip5

evansguy123 said:

But how do I know (and become liable) for any import costs if I am not informed of them by the courier at delivery time?  What is stopping me from shipping parcels from the US to the UK, the courier delivering them and subsequently invoicing the poor recipients?!

It’s Governed  by incoterms. You accepted the risk when purchasing.