Triple Lock Becomes Double Lock For 1 Year

zagfles

Audaxer said:

zagfles said:

Audaxer said:

zagfles said:

Audaxer said:

zagfles said:

Ganga said:

zagfles said:

lauran1902 said:

The fact that some previous uplifts have been more 'generous' than expected doesn't compensate for that fact.  My pension is £8700 per year.  That's all.  I have a very small occupational pension of about the same amount.  Would any one of you who are working like to try and live on that, especially with rising prices all round? 

So you have about £17k income? Or have I misunderstood? Some couples spend less than that, even though they could afford to spend more. Read the "squirrelled nuts" thread here.

Whilst i agree with you ,a lot of the people on the " Squirreled nuts thread " have in excess of half a million quid and a lot have more ,their worries are exceeding the LTA .

Yes. That's the point. Like the OP of that thread who has over half a million but who only spends about £13k (IIRC) between her and her OH.

Like it's some sort of challenge to live on £17k  Many here live on less and not through necessity. 

We are retired with no mortgage, but we as a couple, couldn't live on £17k per year. Not including big spend items which are necessary from time to time, the minimum annual spend we can manage is around £24k. I know there are retirees on here that live on a lot less, and not through necessity, but I don't know how they manage it, because we are by no means big spenders.

Well, you clearly are compared to couples who live on £13k

Our normal spending on a family of 4 is about £30-35k (ex mortgage), but in the 2020/21 tax year I worked out we spent about £21k, this was with 2 kids "at uni" but who were with us most of that time for obvious reasons, so 4 people.  We had 1 foreign holiday and 2 UK ones, way below our usual quota (2019/20 we had 6 foreign holidays!)

So I'd say £17k is easily doable for a couple, let alone a single person, and £13k possible if you don't drink alcohol or eat meat etc.

Well, we hardly ever buy alcohol and we have not eaten out for the last 18 months, and had only one week's holiday in the UK. We have two cars, but they are not new and both are paid for, but we still couldn't manage on £17k a year. 

 

So where is your money going? Clearly, some couples manage on £13k so it is possible. £17k would be easily "manageable" for us. How does your spending compare to Which's "essential" lifestyle here where they reckon £18k for a couple: https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/starting-to-plan-your-retirement/how-much-will-you-need-to-retire-atu0z9k0lw3p

That link also shows that households with two people spend an average of £26k per annum, so we were under that last year for regular spend. Looking at our spend last year, £13k covered just food/supermarket £5.5k, bills £5.5k and pet costs £2k. I don't think the rest of our regular spend is excessive and as we are well within what we have budgeted for in retirement, I'm quite happy with our level of expenditure.

Well that's good. As I said above we'll spend more than that. The point was it's possible for a couple to manage on £17k or even £13k (and Sea Shell says £10.5k above though even we'd struggle on that!).

Not that it's what you should spend, or that it's the average spend, or that anyone spending more is spending excessively, or should feel guilty etc. Just that it's possible to manage. That was the point.

Sea_Shell

zagfles said:

Audaxer said:

zagfles said:

Audaxer said:

zagfles said:

Audaxer said:

zagfles said:

Ganga said:

zagfles said:

lauran1902 said:

The fact that some previous uplifts have been more 'generous' than expected doesn't compensate for that fact.  My pension is £8700 per year.  That's all.  I have a very small occupational pension of about the same amount.  Would any one of you who are working like to try and live on that, especially with rising prices all round? 

So you have about £17k income? Or have I misunderstood? Some couples spend less than that, even though they could afford to spend more. Read the "squirrelled nuts" thread here.

Whilst i agree with you ,a lot of the people on the " Squirreled nuts thread " have in excess of half a million quid and a lot have more ,their worries are exceeding the LTA .

Yes. That's the point. Like the OP of that thread who has over half a million but who only spends about £13k (IIRC) between her and her OH.

Like it's some sort of challenge to live on £17k  Many here live on less and not through necessity. 

We are retired with no mortgage, but we as a couple, couldn't live on £17k per year. Not including big spend items which are necessary from time to time, the minimum annual spend we can manage is around £24k. I know there are retirees on here that live on a lot less, and not through necessity, but I don't know how they manage it, because we are by no means big spenders.

Well, you clearly are compared to couples who live on £13k

Our normal spending on a family of 4 is about £30-35k (ex mortgage), but in the 2020/21 tax year I worked out we spent about £21k, this was with 2 kids "at uni" but who were with us most of that time for obvious reasons, so 4 people.  We had 1 foreign holiday and 2 UK ones, way below our usual quota (2019/20 we had 6 foreign holidays!)

So I'd say £17k is easily doable for a couple, let alone a single person, and £13k possible if you don't drink alcohol or eat meat etc.

Well, we hardly ever buy alcohol and we have not eaten out for the last 18 months, and had only one week's holiday in the UK. We have two cars, but they are not new and both are paid for, but we still couldn't manage on £17k a year. 

 

So where is your money going? Clearly, some couples manage on £13k so it is possible. £17k would be easily "manageable" for us. How does your spending compare to Which's "essential" lifestyle here where they reckon £18k for a couple: https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/starting-to-plan-your-retirement/how-much-will-you-need-to-retire-atu0z9k0lw3p

That link also shows that households with two people spend an average of £26k per annum, so we were under that last year for regular spend. Looking at our spend last year, £13k covered just food/supermarket £5.5k, bills £5.5k and pet costs £2k. I don't think the rest of our regular spend is excessive and as we are well within what we have budgeted for in retirement, I'm quite happy with our level of expenditure.

Well that's good. As I said above we'll spend more than that. The point was it's possible for a couple to manage on £17k or even £13k (and Sea Shell says £10.5k above though even we'd struggle on that!).

Not that it's what you should spend, or that it's the average spend, or that anyone spending more is spending excessively, or should feel guilty etc. Just that it's possible to manage. That was the point.

I'd just add, we'd probably be miserable if we had to manage on £10.5k or less...but it would be doable.



I think we'd all be surprised how little we would REALLY need, if push came to shove.

I'm talking stripped to the bone spending...true essentials only.

That packet of biscuits...put it back!!!

Ibrahim5

Sea_Shell said:

zagfles said:

Audaxer said:

zagfles said:

Audaxer said:

zagfles said:

Audaxer said:

zagfles said:

Ganga said:

zagfles said:

lauran1902 said:

The fact that some previous uplifts have been more 'generous' than expected doesn't compensate for that fact.  My pension is £8700 per year.  That's all.  I have a very small occupational pension of about the same amount.  Would any one of you who are working like to try and live on that, especially with rising prices all round? 

So you have about £17k income? Or have I misunderstood? Some couples spend less than that, even though they could afford to spend more. Read the "squirrelled nuts" thread here.

Whilst i agree with you ,a lot of the people on the " Squirreled nuts thread " have in excess of half a million quid and a lot have more ,their worries are exceeding the LTA .

Yes. That's the point. Like the OP of that thread who has over half a million but who only spends about £13k (IIRC) between her and her OH.

Like it's some sort of challenge to live on £17k  Many here live on less and not through necessity. 

We are retired with no mortgage, but we as a couple, couldn't live on £17k per year. Not including big spend items which are necessary from time to time, the minimum annual spend we can manage is around £24k. I know there are retirees on here that live on a lot less, and not through necessity, but I don't know how they manage it, because we are by no means big spenders.

Well, you clearly are compared to couples who live on £13k

Our normal spending on a family of 4 is about £30-35k (ex mortgage), but in the 2020/21 tax year I worked out we spent about £21k, this was with 2 kids "at uni" but who were with us most of that time for obvious reasons, so 4 people.  We had 1 foreign holiday and 2 UK ones, way below our usual quota (2019/20 we had 6 foreign holidays!)

So I'd say £17k is easily doable for a couple, let alone a single person, and £13k possible if you don't drink alcohol or eat meat etc.

Well, we hardly ever buy alcohol and we have not eaten out for the last 18 months, and had only one week's holiday in the UK. We have two cars, but they are not new and both are paid for, but we still couldn't manage on £17k a year. 

 

So where is your money going? Clearly, some couples manage on £13k so it is possible. £17k would be easily "manageable" for us. How does your spending compare to Which's "essential" lifestyle here where they reckon £18k for a couple: https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/starting-to-plan-your-retirement/how-much-will-you-need-to-retire-atu0z9k0lw3p

That link also shows that households with two people spend an average of £26k per annum, so we were under that last year for regular spend. Looking at our spend last year, £13k covered just food/supermarket £5.5k, bills £5.5k and pet costs £2k. I don't think the rest of our regular spend is excessive and as we are well within what we have budgeted for in retirement, I'm quite happy with our level of expenditure.

Well that's good. As I said above we'll spend more than that. The point was it's possible for a couple to manage on £17k or even £13k (and Sea Shell says £10.5k above though even we'd struggle on that!).

Not that it's what you should spend, or that it's the average spend, or that anyone spending more is spending excessively, or should feel guilty etc. Just that it's possible to manage. That was the point.

I'd just add, we'd probably be miserable if we had to manage on £10.5k or less...but it would be doable.



I think we'd all be surprised how little we would REALLY need, if push came to shove.

I'm talking stripped to the bone spending...true essentials only.

That packet of biscuits...put it back!!!

Would probably cure my obesity.

zagfles

Notepad_Phil said:

michaels said:
...  and that is before rents were increased to cover the same property confiscation tax levied on the landlord.  I have to say the logic of raising taxes on housing that is already hard to afford for the poorest is a little tricky for me to follow.  Would you also propose raising taxes on gas and electricity and water bills and perhaps food while you were at it or is it only housing that gets special extra tax treatment?

A landlord tax along with some kind of robin hood/tobin type tax seems to be Keir's preferred route - like you I can't see the logic of a landlord or housing tax, especially a landlord tax as it'll just get passed on to the people renting who in the main will be on less money than those who own their house; and as for a tax on financial transactions, well if there was any one proposal that would make the higher ups move their operations and highly paid (and taxed) employees away from the UK then that must surely be it

It would likely also get rid of the good professional landlords, for various reasons often discussed here BTL is no longer a good investment IMO but those who know what they're doing can still make it work. But an additional "landlord tax" could be final straw for them. Then all you'll be left with is the numpty landlords who don't know what they're doing, only invest in BTL because they don't understand finance, don't trust "pensions", and have been told "can't go wrong with property" etc. 

It might reduce house prices, which will be good for those who are only renting because they can't afford to buy, but some people need to rent eg students, people who are only in an area temporarily etc. So we still need decent landlords who know what they're doing who can provide rented accomodation to those who need it.

It would be better to tax unused or underused properties, eg second homes.

Audaxer

zagfles said:

Audaxer said:

zagfles said:

Audaxer said:

zagfles said:

Audaxer said:

zagfles said:

Ganga said:

zagfles said:

lauran1902 said:

The fact that some previous uplifts have been more 'generous' than expected doesn't compensate for that fact.  My pension is £8700 per year.  That's all.  I have a very small occupational pension of about the same amount.  Would any one of you who are working like to try and live on that, especially with rising prices all round? 

So you have about £17k income? Or have I misunderstood? Some couples spend less than that, even though they could afford to spend more. Read the "squirrelled nuts" thread here.

Whilst i agree with you ,a lot of the people on the " Squirreled nuts thread " have in excess of half a million quid and a lot have more ,their worries are exceeding the LTA .

Yes. That's the point. Like the OP of that thread who has over half a million but who only spends about £13k (IIRC) between her and her OH.

Like it's some sort of challenge to live on £17k  Many here live on less and not through necessity. 

We are retired with no mortgage, but we as a couple, couldn't live on £17k per year. Not including big spend items which are necessary from time to time, the minimum annual spend we can manage is around £24k. I know there are retirees on here that live on a lot less, and not through necessity, but I don't know how they manage it, because we are by no means big spenders.

Well, you clearly are compared to couples who live on £13k

Our normal spending on a family of 4 is about £30-35k (ex mortgage), but in the 2020/21 tax year I worked out we spent about £21k, this was with 2 kids "at uni" but who were with us most of that time for obvious reasons, so 4 people.  We had 1 foreign holiday and 2 UK ones, way below our usual quota (2019/20 we had 6 foreign holidays!)

So I'd say £17k is easily doable for a couple, let alone a single person, and £13k possible if you don't drink alcohol or eat meat etc.

Well, we hardly ever buy alcohol and we have not eaten out for the last 18 months, and had only one week's holiday in the UK. We have two cars, but they are not new and both are paid for, but we still couldn't manage on £17k a year. 

 

So where is your money going? Clearly, some couples manage on £13k so it is possible. £17k would be easily "manageable" for us. How does your spending compare to Which's "essential" lifestyle here where they reckon £18k for a couple: https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/starting-to-plan-your-retirement/how-much-will-you-need-to-retire-atu0z9k0lw3p

That link also shows that households with two people spend an average of £26k per annum, so we were under that last year for regular spend. Looking at our spend last year, £13k covered just food/supermarket £5.5k, bills £5.5k and pet costs £2k. I don't think the rest of our regular spend is excessive and as we are well within what we have budgeted for in retirement, I'm quite happy with our level of expenditure.

Well that's good. As I said above we'll spend more than that. The point was it's possible for a couple to manage on £17k or even £13k (and Sea Shell says £10.5k above though even we'd struggle on that!).

Not that it's what you should spend, or that it's the average spend, or that anyone spending more is spending excessively, or should feel guilty etc. Just that it's possible to manage. That was the point.

Okay, I agree it's possible as Sea Shell and some others do it, but for us it would mean cutting out a lot of things out that are important for us to enjoy a comfortable retirement. I would think that the vast majority of retirees with DB pensions and/or a DC pot will plan to spend more than £17k a year, as that amount would be covered by their two State Pensions alone by the time they reach State Pension age.

simbella

If the triple lock is to be scrapped will the govt also outlaw companies who increase prices by "percentage of CPI increase over 12months plus 3.9%. This is becoming more popular and could lead to increases in region of 5%. Unacceptable totally

simbella

Sorry my post should say 15% not 5

michaels

simbella said:

If the triple lock is to be scrapped will the govt also outlaw companies who increase prices by "percentage of CPI increase over 12months plus 3.9%. This is becoming more popular and could lead to increases in region of 5%. Unacceptable totally

I have long thought this should be unacceptable given they I also claiming £x per month - they should be forced to give the effective £ per month over the contract.  It is also basically building in inflation so I would have thought the govt should be against for that reason - although of course this govt is ideologically against regulation of companies to protect consumers who are assumed to be able to take care of themselves. 

Another area where similar is happening is petrol retail where a 'complex monopoly' is allowing massive profit margins all resulting from the take over of Asda by a pair of petrol retail brothers who realised that Asda were driving the whole petrol price market by trying to be the cheapest supermarket.  They and their VC backers must have made a fortune simply by scrapping that policy.

If the govt could fix these two issues they could take a big chunk out of the inflation measure.

zagfles

simbella said:

If the triple lock is to be scrapped will the govt also outlaw companies who increase prices by "percentage of CPI increase over 12months plus 3.9%. This is becoming more popular and could lead to increases in region of 5%. Unacceptable totally

Just don't agree to contracts which have those terms! Or price them in when comparing, or use PAYG or rolling monthly contracts which you can cancel anytime without penalty. There's an issue if the CPI+x% increase is hidden in the small print, it should be clear up front.

I guess you're talking about mobile contracts and broadband, for mobiles most people will be better off on PAYG, I don't understand why contracts are so popular. PAYG with sensible use of bundles is usually far cheaper.  For broadband, you could get a rolling contract, or eg a 12 month contract starting just after their inflation rise so you can switch at the time of the next rise.

But can't see what it has to do with the state pension. Most employed people are getting below inflation payrises. Most people with private sector DB pensions have inflation rises capped at 3% or 5%. Most peoples' income isn't going to keep up with inflation and hasn't for a while.

RobM99

 "Most employed people are getting below inflation pay rises. Most people with private sector DB pensions have inflation rises capped at 3% or 5%. Most peoples' income isn't going to keep up with inflation and hasn't for a while."

Precisely this. My company pension is capped at 2.5% so my lump sum is earning more than that tax-free, so in retrospect maybe taking it was a good idea.