Bought ticket, received PCN from HX Car Park Management

Dave_Sk

Hi there,

Was wondering if anyone can tell me what to do in this situation.

- Parked in a car park in St Bees
- Paid for an all day ticket, entered the last 3 digits of the reg and displayed ticket
- Received a Parking Charge Notice through the post from HX Car Park Management saying "Failed to make and/or validate payment"

There's a photo of the dash where the ticket isn't visible. It's a van though and the dash is large so it could have been out of view. The photo appears to have been taken by an actual person.

Only things I can think that might have done wrong

- Ticket slipped out of view, maybe, can't remember where it was placed so not sure but the dash is sloped and stuff has a tendency to slide down under the bottom of the windscreen
- First ticket machine was out of order so got a ticket from the opposite side of the car park where there was another machine, it's possible this machine was for a different car park next to a hotel but unlikely.
- Put the reg in wrong, again unlikely


The driver doesn't seem to have the ticket any more but paid on card and can see the transaction on bank statement.


I've read the newbies guide. Not sure about complaining to the landowner as I'm not sure who it is with it being a beach front car park or how to find out. 

Was hoping for some structure for my appeal to the parking company and an idea of what I should be saying?

In this case should I keep it simple and just say "The driver paid for a ticket and entered the last 3 letters of the reg. Here's a screenshot of the bank transaction. Please check the ticket machine logs for the reg"


Any help massively appreciated

D_P_Dance

That seems like a plan.  Have you complained to your MP? 

Dave_Sk

Thanks, I've not contacted or complained to anyone yet as I didn't want to mess anything up. 

Should I request data from the Pay and Display machine or anything else, or is this likely to closed without too much hassle?

Redx

Normally full details of the VRM are required , not just the last 3 characters , I have absolutely no idea why people only put in a partial plate !!

Use the blue text template from the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum in announcements , adding your line about what driver did plus attaching a copy of the redacted bank statement

Download and read the IPC CoP , checking the section on incorrect keying issues etc too

Dave_Sk

Thank you!

I entered the details it asked for - think it only requested last 3 letters of the reg. If it requested the full reg I would have entered that. Maybe my memory failed me there. Now I'm wondering if it asked for the reg at all! I might have got mixed up with another car park perhaps. I won't mention the reg but ask them to check the logs for my details/payment.

Just logged onto their site and there are further photos which give good evidence that the ticket wasn't displayed. Definitely had one (as bank statement shows) but wondering if it did slip/blow out of the way when I left the vehicle now.

Dave_Sk

I've written the following. Any comments before I submit it. Not sure about the last time - doesn't appear that it is relevant as there's no dispute I went overtime - should I keep or remove it? My additions in bold italics:

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

The driver paid £5 for an "all-day" ticket approx 9-10am which was displayed on the dashboard and was visible from outside the vehicle.  

The payment was paid by contactless payment and can ben confirmed on the attached bank statement. Your PDT machine log should also confirm the payment and registration entered. 

The 5 photographs on your site do not sufficiently show the entire dash board

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.



Thanks!

Redx

Seems ok to me !

I still believe that full VRM entry was required , it always is with private parking places

Dave_Sk

Thanks, I'll send it in and come back when they respond. 

I had to give last 3 letters of reg somewhere recently, might have been a hotel or something so I could be getting mixed up. I would have followed the instructions on the machine if it had asked for the full reg. Unless I got mixed up at the time and misunderstood the instructions. I don't live near it so can't go and check it out sadly. 

Coupon-mad

Don’t pay them if they refuse your appeal.  Try the kangaroo court of IAS for the sake of a laugh, and because some PPCs drop out, and because it looks better later if you’ve tried.

ask in the appeal, are you saying this was a keying error or what is your case?

Dave_Sk

Coupon-mad said:

Don’t pay them if they refuse your appeal.  Try the kangaroo court of IAS for the sake of a laugh, and because some PPCs drop out, and because it looks better later if you’ve tried.

Thanks, if I try the IAS doesn't it then cost me an extra £40?

Currently it's £60 if I pay in 14 days, £100 if I pay in 28 days

Seems that if I appeal through HX and they refuse the appeal it's still £60 as long as I pay within 14 days of their refusal, but then if I try IAS it goes up to £100

Coupon-mad said:

ask in the appeal, are you saying this was a keying error or what is your case?

I've already put the appeal in now (word for word as above). But I think their case is that the parking attendant didn't see the ticket in my windscreen and assumed I didn't have one. I can't remember if it was visible when I came back. I certainly would have displayed it but it could have slipped down on got wafted onto the floor I guess. 
The photos on their site show most of the dash with no ticket and it doesn't look good, but there's a couple of blind spots where the ticket could have been.

I guess it depends on if "failure to display" the ticket is part of the contract?

Dave_Sk

Cheers and apologies for wasting time with stuff that was covered elsewhere.

I did read the newbies thread but I should have said that I'd rather just pay the £60 than ultimately risk court as I'm a bit of a worrier and the sleepless nights and stress probably isn't worth it (and the time off work too). With that in mind it might be better to just pay the £60 instead of letting it get to £100, even if I could win later down the line. 
But I'll have a deeper read later and try to get my head round it and try to work out if they have a legitimate claim or not. Plus see what they say in response to my appeal. The fact that the parking was paid for brings out the stubborn part of me so I might see it through.

Thanks again for your help.