Conveyancing/legal pack advice

$hift36

Hi all,
I am wanting to bid for a property going to auction soon but I need a professional to cast an eye over a lease agreement to fully understand what it means. As I dont know if I will be successful at the auction I was hoping someone might know of a way I can get this checked for free, or as cheap as possible. 

The property is stated as freehold in the title document from HMLR, but at the end it says 999 year lease, start date 1928.
The lease agreement is included in the legal pack but is a photocopy and written in legal gobbley gook so Im not confident I fully understand what it refers to exactly. It outlines land encompassing the whole row of 6 terraced houses in Liverpool, and states the annual payments in shillings, with what looks like the two original lessors now deceased. But in order to bid on this property I really need professional clarification on how this property can be both freehold and leasehold, and what potential pit falls to be aware of, as I have heard some horror stories re leasehold homes and runaway fees.

TIA

Rob

user1977

Contact some solicitors and ask them for fee quotes. You're not going to get this sort of advice (certainly not something you can rely on) for free.

london21

Likely going to be a fee for the documents to be reviewed.
Worth checking online or ringing a few property solicitors.

999 years lease now 906 years remaining.
You might have the option to buy the freehold after purchase.

Worth getting someone with legal background to check the terms and condition also as i recently bought an auction property which was impossible to get a mortgage as it was a back to back flip and the person selling wasn't yet on land registry. 

canaldumidi

It sounds like you are new to auctions. Assuming this is a traditional auction (not a so-called 'modern auction' which you should simply not get involved with) you need to

* pay a conveyancer to fully check the legal pack- not just the lease

* get a survey done before the auction, unless you are 100% confident in your ability to assess the property yourself

* apply for and receive any funding you need (eg mortgage). Applying for it after the auction is too late

Yes, these are up-front costs, which may be lost if you are out-bid, but that's how auctions work.

Once the hammer falls you are commited. If there is later an issue with your funding, or the legals, or the condition of the property- tough! You still have to buy (or face very hefty penalties).

$hift36

london21 said:

Likely going to be a fee for the documents to be reviewed.
Worth check online or ringing a few property solicitors.

999 years lease now 906 years remaining.
You might have the option to buy the freehold after purchase.

Worth getting someone with legal background to check the terms and condition also as i recently bought an auction property which was impossible to get a mortgage as it was a back to back flip and the person selling wasn't yet on land registry. 

If the seller name is not on the LR title does that cause issues then?
The seller is the son of the deceased name on the LR title, and included in the legal pack is a probate document naming the son with entitlement through inheritance. 

I have read many times in legal packs that if the name on the title is different from the sellers, the buyer shall not delay completion etc etc. Basically protecting the seller from anyone backing out.
The problem with this is the  back log HMLR has at the moment due to covid lockdowns, so I have come across this alot in recent months. 

The property is definitely freehold, and the lease refers to the whole land the 6 terraced houses have been built on, but need to understand the details of the lease. I have emailed a couple of local solicitors this afternoon and will follow up with a phone call tomorrow morning if I don't hear anything sooner.

Thanks 

canaldumidi

In principle there is nothing wrong with an Executer who has obtained probate selling the property of a deceased owner.

But again, the specifics need to be checked by your solicitor before you raise your hand at the auction, unless you are confdant with the legalities yourself (which you appear dubious of).

user1977

$hift36 said:

london21 said:

Likely going to be a fee for the documents to be reviewed.
Worth check online or ringing a few property solicitors.

999 years lease now 906 years remaining.
You might have the option to buy the freehold after purchase.

Worth getting someone with legal background to check the terms and condition also as i recently bought an auction property which was impossible to get a mortgage as it was a back to back flip and the person selling wasn't yet on land registry. 

If the seller name is not on the LR title does that cause issues then?
The seller is the son of the deceased name on the LR title, and included in the legal pack is a probate document naming the son with entitlement through inheritance. 

That's what you'd expect to happen in such a situation. It's not normal for executors to register their title first.

eddddy

$hift36 said:

The property is stated as freehold in the title document from HMLR, but at the end it says 999 year lease, start date 1928.
The lease agreement is included in the legal pack but is a photocopy and written in legal gobbley gook so Im not confident I fully understand what it refers to exactly. It outlines land encompassing the whole row of 6 terraced houses in Liverpool, and states the annual payments in shillings, with what looks like the two original lessors now deceased. 

$hift36 said:

The property is definitely freehold, and the lease refers to the whole land the 6 terraced houses have been built on, but need to understand the details of the lease. 

What are you thinking/hoping that you would be buying?

From your description, it sounds like you're talking about an auction lot which is a freehold piece of land, which is subject to 6 long leases.

But I suspect you're hoping to buy a vacant house to live in.

Does the auction description mention "Vacant Freehold House" or "Vacant Leasehold House" or similar wording?


(Do you want to provide a link to it?)

$hift36

eddddy said:

$hift36 said:

The property is stated as freehold in the title document from HMLR, but at the end it says 999 year lease, start date 1928.
The lease agreement is included in the legal pack but is a photocopy and written in legal gobbley gook so Im not confident I fully understand what it refers to exactly. It outlines land encompassing the whole row of 6 terraced houses in Liverpool, and states the annual payments in shillings, with what looks like the two original lessors now deceased. 

$hift36 said:

The property is definitely freehold, and the lease refers to the whole land the 6 terraced houses have been built on, but need to understand the details of the lease. 

What are you thinking/hoping that you would be buying?

From your description, it sounds like you're talking about an auction lot which is a freehold piece of land, which is subject to 6 long leases.

But I suspect you're hoping to buy a vacant house to live in.

Does the auction description mention "Vacant Freehold House" or "Vacant Leasehold House" or similar wording?


(Do you want to provide a link to it?)

Yes the auction does say freehold vacant. And speaking to the auction house they believe it to be freehold. But when questioning this 999 year lease as well in the legal pack they just said they can't help because they are not trained.
Sutton Kersh, Liverpool. 

Cant provide a link to docs because you have to be registered with iegroup in order to view legal packs now. Seems to be that way with all the decent auction houses these days.

canaldumidi

$hift36 said:

eddddy said:

$hift36 said:

The property is stated as freehold in the title document from HMLR, but at the end it says 999 year lease, start date 1928.
The lease agreement is included in the legal pack but is a photocopy and written in legal gobbley gook so Im not confident I fully understand what it refers to exactly. It outlines land encompassing the whole row of 6 terraced houses in Liverpool, and states the annual payments in shillings, with what looks like the two original lessors now deceased. 

$hift36 said:

The property is definitely freehold, and the lease refers to the whole land the 6 terraced houses have been built on, but need to understand the details of the lease. 

What are you thinking/hoping that you would be buying?

From your description, it sounds like you're talking about an auction lot which is a freehold piece of land, which is subject to 6 long leases.

But I suspect you're hoping to buy a vacant house to live in.

Does the auction description mention "Vacant Freehold House" or "Vacant Leasehold House" or similar wording?


(Do you want to provide a link to it?)

Yes the auction does say freehold vacant. And speaking to the auction house they believe it to be freehold. But when questioning this 999 year lease as well in the legal pack they just said they can't help because they are not trained.
...

Of course. And it's not their job.

It is for the buyer, together with his legal adviser, to verify the facts.

And whether you can or can't link the details here, and whether unknown bods on the internet here do or don't offer you explanations, you should employ a solicitor before you bid.

eddddy

$hift36 said:

Yes the auction does say freehold vacant. And speaking to the auction house they believe it to be freehold. But when questioning this 999 year lease as well in the legal pack they just said they can't help because they are not trained.

Sutton Kersh, Liverpool. 

Cant provide a link to docs because you have to be registered with iegroup in order to view legal packs now. Seems to be that way with all the decent auction houses these days.

A link to the lot would be fine, or just a note of the Lot number. I suspect that a number people on the forum are registered Auction Passport users, so they would be able to download the legal pack, if they wanted to.

(But obviously check everything with a solicitor before bidding.)