UW charging higher rate than I signed up for.

wilderbird

A bit of background - I live in a remote area of Scotland. I have a comfort plus white meter (economy 10). It has 3 readings, Day, Night and Heat. Day is usually the most expensive and heat the least expensive for my storage heaters. Night accomodates my water heater. My night and heat usage combined amounts to 80% of my total usage. A couple of years ago I managed to escape from Scottish Power and switched to a cheaper tariff with People's Energy. They were great from the outset. They put my night and heat readings onto the same off peak economy 7 tariff. Everything was set up as I expected and their bills always matched my calculations. Then this year my direct debit went from £140/month in Feb to £200 in June with no increase in usage from me. Time to switch. I used the Cheap Energy Club and found the Utility Warehouse value tariff which gave me massive savings. I phoned them and explained my meter and the setup and also told them how People's Energy had billed me. They said they could take me on.

To date - The switch went through on 16th July. Since then I've had no end of problems with them, including entering my initial readings the wrong way round, charging me 2 x standing charges (both now corrected, I think, but time will tell). They set up 2 MPAN numbers both with day and night so I didn't know which was which for my storage heater readings. This was then changed to a single entry. So yesterday for peace of mind I rang them to check that the storage heaters were being charged at 7.56p/kwh to be told that they didn't accomodate economy 10 meters and the charge was 18p/kwh. It was a huge shock to me (I'm 64 and recovering from breast cancer). I lost a lot of sleep last night. The storage heaters are now all off. I'm now wondering what rates they will be charging me for my day and night readings but I daren't ring them up to find out. I'm suspecting that all three readings will be on the same rate. I've asked to speak to a manager but I have to wait 48 hours. No one even had the courtesy to inform me of the different rate or any problems they were having. If this rate is to stand I have lost any savings I thought I'd found and increased my bills substantially. Can they do this without informing me? Have I been mis-sold?

Finally - would it help if I switch to a smart meter? Would UW be able to put me on economy 7 if I did? Would I still have 2 separate MPAN's and would I have trouble finding alternative energy suppliers to take me on?

Gerry1

Welcome to the forum.

A Dynamic Teleswitch Update – Successful Switch!

Ofgem: RHT must offer single rate

Restricted Meter Good Practice Guide

Victory: 2 MPANs but one SC

The best solution may be to switch to a single meter with Economy 7 because you would then be free to use any supplier.  You don't need a smart meter, although sadly you may be pressurised into agreeing to have one.  However, as your storage heaters are likely to be under dimensioned by today's standards, the evenings may be chilly on E7.  You could 'try before you buy' by limiting the existing NSHs to seven hours (e.g. switching them off during the afternoon boost times) and seeing how you get on when the weather is cold.  If extra capacity is needed, consider adding a modern high heat retention one such as Dimplex Quantum and perhaps rearranging the location of the others as required.

wilderbird

Thank you Gerry1. I tried to switch to an Economy 7 meter when I was with Scottish Power. They told me that I would need to change my heating system before they would do this so I'm a bit dubious at trying this route. As for the afternoon and evening boosts to the heaters they are now non existent with UW. I have electric oil filled radiators as a back up and a multi fuel stove so I'm not going to freeze this winter unless we have another beast from the east when the house was no warmer than 11C. 

Fyne

Hi wilderbird,
I have just moved from SSE to EDF, I have a complex meter setup (THTC) with 2 meters one for heat and hot water and the other standard electric. EDF complex meter team were very helpful and understood my meter setup. I suggest giving them a call on 03330096980, just make sure you speak to the complex meter team.
Good luck.

wilderbird

I've submitted a complaint to Utility Warehouse accusing them of mis-selling. I've kept plenty of records and most communication has been done by email to date. I'll let you know how I get on. Hopefully I don't freeze to death in the meantime.

Gerry1

wilderbird said:

Thank you Gerry1. I tried to switch to an Economy 7 meter when I was with Scottish Power. They told me that I would need to change my heating system before they would do this so I'm a bit dubious at trying this route. As for the afternoon and evening boosts to the heaters they are now non existent with UW. I have electric oil filled radiators as a back up and a multi fuel stove so I'm not going to freeze this winter unless we have another beast from the east when the house was no warmer than 11C.

It's good that a supplier warns you of potential problems if you have storage heaters and you switch from Economy 10 to Economy 7: if you then found that E7 means it's chilly in the evenings you probably couldn't go back to E10.  However, I doubt that they're entitled to insist that you change your heating, you would simply be making an informed choice.

As you have other sources of heat available, a competitive tariff on E7 with an upgraded NSH or two looks a good way to go assuming that your multi-fuel stove doesn't heat the whole house.  Using oil filled radiators of day rate really is a last resort because nothing is more expensive.

wilderbird

Gerry1 said:

As you have other sources of heat available, a competitive tariff on E7 with an upgraded NSH or two looks a good way to go assuming that your multi-fuel stove doesn't heat the whole house.  Using oil filled radiators of day rate really is a last resort because nothing is more expensive.

Forgive my ignorance but what's NSH? You're correct in thinking that my multi-fuel stove won't heat the whole house. I only have oil filled radiators as alternative heating at the moment so they can't be switched on during the day when the most expensive rate applies. I have a towel radiator in the bathroom that is on a timer to use during the night. The bathroom is the coldest room in the house, the towel radiator alone doesn't keep it warm enough. There is a small bathroom storage heater in there too.

wilderbird

It's OK, I think you mean new storage heater. I talked to a local electrician about them and he advised me to keep the dimplex heaters that I have. He said that the Quantum heaters need an electric socket next to them so they can be switched on during the day if needed and that the Quantum heaters aren't any better than the heaters we already have in terms of heat output. So it would have not been economical to invest in new heaters plus extra electric sockets and wiring for no extra benefit.

QrizB

NSH - Night Storage Heater.

Your current NSHs will (or should) have been chosen to make use of 10 hours of cheap electricity to heat up and 14 hours to cool down. If you move to Economy 7 you will only have 7 hours to heat up and 17 to cool down, so you may need larger (more powerful) NSHs in order to store enough cheap E7 heat without depending on peak-rate electricity to top up the heating on cold days.

You could do the heat loss calculations (or get someone else to do them) or you could wait until the depths of winter and see if your current NSHs are big enough.

Gerry1

wilderbird said:

I talked to a local electrician about them and he advised me to keep the dimplex heaters that I have. He said that the Quantum heaters need an electric socket next to them so they can be switched on during the day if needed...

Doesn't seem to be entirely correct.

Ideally the Dimplex Quantum needs both an E7 supply (switched by the meter) for the main heating plus a 24h supply for the fan and so that you can top up with expensive day rate if you're caught out by an unexpectedly cold day.  However, they can run off a single 24h supply because they have an inbuilt timer and calendar, although you'd need to be vigilant in programming it to make sure it only charges up during the night rate periods.

wilderbird said:

I talked to a local electrician about them and he advised me... that the Quantum heaters aren't any better than the heaters we already have in terms of heat output. So it would have not been economical to invest in new heaters plus extra electric sockets and wiring for no extra benefit.

Again, probably not quite right for two reasons.

• You don't necessarily have to replace all the existing heaters, just add sufficient capacity to make up for the charging time reducing from ten hours to seven.  Perhaps one or two new heaters, and 'cascading' them down, possibly getting rid of the smallest ones if keeping them would be cause a space problem.  And of course, Night Storage Heaters come in different sizes so it shouldn't be difficult to specify one that has more heat output than the diddly E10 one that it replaces.
  

• It's likely that modern NSHs will be more efficient in terms of running costs because they are better insulated.  An old 'box of bricks' NSH will leak heat all through the night when it's not needed, whereas a modern high heat retention NSH will be better insulated, and will have a fan to blow out warm air only during the times of day that you've programmed.  The result will be that you'll be just as warm when you want to be, but they will use fewer kWh to achieve that result.  And with E7 you'd then be free to search the whole market and get the best possible deal.