References

Brie

I didn't think that a reference could include that sort of info.  My understanding is that they would say something like "Pearson worked for us from 01/01/16 to 30/09/18."  To comment on sickness or ability could trigger legal proceedings. 

pearson27

Yeah that's what I thought too

JCS1

Brie said:

I didn't think that a reference could include that sort of info.  My understanding is that they would say something like "Pearson worked for us from 01/01/16 to 30/09/18."  To comment on sickness or ability could trigger legal proceedings. 

There is a common misconception that a reference can only be positive or neutral, as long as it is correct and accurate it can state things that may be considered as negative by the person concerned.

Reginald74

JCS1 said:

Brie said:

I didn't think that a reference could include that sort of info.  My understanding is that they would say something like "Pearson worked for us from 01/01/16 to 30/09/18."  To comment on sickness or ability could trigger legal proceedings. 

There is a common misconception that a reference can only be positive or neutral, as long as it is correct and accurate it can state things that may be considered as negative by the person concerned.

Actually it is even looser than that. A person can write what they like, provided they believe it to be true when they wrote it. It doesn't even have to be true.

Jillanddy

Reginald74 said:

JCS1 said:

Brie said:

I didn't think that a reference could include that sort of info.  My understanding is that they would say something like "Pearson worked for us from 01/01/16 to 30/09/18."  To comment on sickness or ability could trigger legal proceedings. 

There is a common misconception that a reference can only be positive or neutral, as long as it is correct and accurate it can state things that may be considered as negative by the person concerned.

Actually it is even looser than that. A person can write what they like, provided they believe it to be true when they wrote it. It doesn't even have to be true.

It's even more complicated than that, because negligent misstatement says that they may be liable for something even if they believed it to be true if it can be established that they could reasonably have found out wasn't true!!!

But the overarching point remains - it is perfectly legal to provide a "bad reference" provided it is given truthfully and in good faith. Saying that someone resigned whilst in the disciplinary process, since the OP isn't denying it, is true. Therefore it can be said, and actually often is in my experience. My group of employers also have another wonderful catch all question - "Would you employ this person again". If someone answers "no" then expect, at best, questions about it. 

Personally, if that appeared on a reference for me I would certainly not ignore it. I would want to discuss it, and I would then make a decision about how relevant it is to me. But I also wouldn't necessarily accept the explanation at face value either - I cannot lie, so if someone resigned during a disciplinary I would have to consider that there may be credence to the disciplinary. As a manager I have conducted disciplinaries, and I have had people resign as a result. I can honestly say that not one of the people who resigned was innocent! Seriously. They resigned in the face of overwhelming evidence. So I wouldn't say that someone might not resign when innocent of what they were accused of, but I would probably need to be convinced, especially if it were relevant to the role I was recruiting to.

pearson27

To be honest both events ran in parallel. I had a job lined up but for reasons I had a disciplinary. Mental health etc 

Jillanddy

pearson27 said:

To be honest both events ran in parallel. I had a job lined up but for reasons I had a disciplinary. Mental health etc 

Yes.  But there are always "reasons", and whilst I don't wish to cast aspersions on you personally,  in addition to all my "guilty" disciplinaries resigning,  they all were signed off for their mental health too - the minute they realised they'd been caught their mental health took a nose dive.  Now please don't take it that I don't believe you.  I don't know anything about it so I am not judging. But you asked what a manager / employer would make of this,  so I'm afraid I'm telling your what you asked.  And you haven't told me anything I haven't heard a dozen times.  Now if I was inclined to believe you,  and if I managed some inconsequential work, then I might give you a chance - and probably watch you like a hawk! But I actually manage budgets of multiple £millions, and my teams have access to financial and personal information of many people - including many very vulnerable people.  And I happened to be innocent but I resigned anyway,  I had another job lined up conveniently,  and,  you know,  mental health....?You are not getting the job.  And to be clear - I do believe in second chances,  I might seriously consider taking a risk. But not anything that is so "thin".

Nobody can tell you what an unknown employer with an unknown role will make of this. Maybe they'll be fine.  Maybe not. But don't be tempted to tell anything but the truth if asked. People think managers are stupid.  Some are. Most of us though can tell a lie in a second.  

pearson27

Totally appreciate the above

Doesn't make you unemployable though....

Jillanddy

pearson27 said:

Totally appreciate the above

Doesn't make you unemployable though....

No it doesn't, but it doesn't make you employable either.  

Undervalued

Brie said:

I didn't think that a reference could include that sort of info.  My understanding is that they would say something like "Pearson worked for us from 01/01/16 to 30/09/18."  To comment on sickness or ability could trigger legal proceedings. 

The popular myth!

Anything could trigger legal proceedings but they are only likely to be successful if the past employer has said something that is untrue or deliberately misleading.

It is certainly true that some employers exercise extreme caution in this area, a bit like printing "Caution, contents may be hot" on a coffee cup! That is their privilege.

If they do give a reference they have a legal duty to both parties. Saying that somebody is wonderful when they clearly weren't could equally give rise to legal action from the new employer.

Except in a few regulated occupations there is no obligation to provide a reference at all. Refusal is usually taken as meaning "we have nothing good to say" but is completely non-actionable!