Double glazing company keeping my deposit?

shesu

Good evening,

I am looking for some advice please. (please go to the end for shortened version) 

A double glazing company come out to my house. The sales rep was here just over 3hrs despite me trying to speed things up to get her to give me a quote.

The quote ended up being extremely high. She calls her boss and does the really old tactic of getting savings etc. I paid a deposit in the end.

Less than 14 days later I ask to cancel because I did feel pressured after 3 extremely long hours and a full day at work and I'm being told they will knock a further 1000 off the price or keep my deposit if I don't wish to continue.

I was not made aware I only had 7 days to cancel and the terms and conditions it's at the bottom of the left page.

They said on the phone that they would keep it for expenses incurred. However if my house was larger and I ordered more windows they would of kept that too? No surveyor has been. I would happily pay an admin fee but keeping a 10% deposit is ridiculous. Meaning if you were having one window done they could keep under 100 or a large house thousands.

I would have considered the lowered price but the company hasn't been great and even mentioned they take negative online reviews to court. Quite threatening in my opinion.

Most places give 14 days cool off period for distance selling, does this apply to me or not because they are & 'bespoke' but not made or even measured yet. 

Any advice greatly appreciated, I really understand how foolish I have been. 

To sum up : Double glazing sales rep come out, after 3hrs took deposit. I cancel before 14 days but policy says 7. Company wants to keep deposit, surveyor has not been. Where do I stand? 

grumbler

I thought there were no people left falling for this "really old tactic".

I stand corrected - the crooks can relax.

It doesn't matter what their 'policy' says. What matters is what the law says (not "Most places"). And the law says 14 days - or even 1 year if you weren't informed about 14 days - 

• Buying on the web, mail order or from home

I hope you paid by a card. If so, call your bank and ask them to do chargeback

• Chargeback refunds

And learn the lesson at last. If anyone knocks on your door to sell you something, shut the door before they finish their first sentence. You can add few strong words when doing this.

Jeepers_Creepers

Shesu, do you have Legal Protection on your house insurance? If so, call them up for advice on the correct way to tackle this.

I understand it is as Grumb says, so relax.

And start to write your honest review. Straightforward, factual, just as you have done above. Try to recall the exact phrases used by the fellow on the phone in particular, when they essentially threatened you about leaving reviews.

This is what these charlatans deserve. And you'll be doing your bit to protect other folk like yourself who were caught off guard.

Please keep us posted on how they react - it should be fun :-)

fezster

The 14 days most definitely applies. Look up "Consumer contract regulations" and the section for "distance selling".

If they've failed to provide you with the correct information regarding your cancellation rights, you may have up to 12 months to cancel. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

The replies above are a bit incomplete, similar situation on the consumer rights board here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6244568/double-glazing-cancellation-rights#latest


For an off-premises contract the trader must provide the information detailed in schedule 2 via durable means:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/schedule/2/made

including:

(l)where a right to cancel exists, the conditions, time limit and procedures for exercising that right in accordance with regulations 27 to 38;

There are limits where the right to cancel does not exist including:

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/28/made

(b)the supply of goods that are made to the consumer’s specifications or are clearly personalised;

It does not mean you cancel if work hasn't begun, simply if that's what the contract is for there isn't a right to cancel.

But, it has been suggested by respected posters that for the trader to rely on the limit they must communicate this as part of their obligation from (l) of schedule  2.

If the durable information doesn't include everything in the first link then the consumer isn't bound by the contract. 

For the supply of services the time limit for the right to cancel can also be reduced to when the supply of service begins as per:

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/36/made
 

36.—(1) The trader must not begin the supply of a service before the end of the cancellation period provided for in regulation 30(1) unless the consumer—

(a)has made an express request, and

(b)in the case of an off-premises contract, has made the request on a durable medium.

As Jenni_D points out on the other thread a flat % for cancellation may be an unfair term as you would only be liable for their direct losses but if you can't come to an agreement it would be down to which party can articulate themselves best via the small claims process. 

Really you have to decide if you take the extra £1k off and go ahead, lose the 10% and go with another company or do this and seek to recover some of your deposit. 

Really depends on how much the 10% is, if the windows are 5k £500 perhaps isn't much for the company to justify as a loss, if the windows are £30k then £3000 is obviously a much larger figure.

The company may say that once the order is in they send it to be manufactured and if they cancel this it costs them 10%.

grumbler

The company may say that once the order is in they send it to be manufactured and if they cancel this it costs them 10%.

The company doesn't even have the dimensions.

shesu

Hello just to say I really appreciate the replies, I am at work and will reply very soon.

twopenny

I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. If they have already told you about suing for bad reviews, not told you that their T&C's are different to the law goodness knows what happens should the order or fitting not be right, or they leave a job half done and go home.

Write to them stating the law - that you wish for your deposit back as requested within the correct time frame and give them a week or 2 weeks stated to do this or you will persue this legally.

If they can reduce the price like this twice then they were overcharging in the first place. No saying that these rogues won't then add the extra on because of 'unforseen factors' at the end of the job should it ever get done. A discount offered once for maybe waiting for the work, changing small items, prompt payment is one thing.

Then look for a good local firm that will give a price and date for commencement and completion and stick to it.

shesu

Hi again, new to this forum and on phone so bare with me please and sorry if I miss anyone out.

Grumbler, thank you for your reply. I know believe it or not I'm one of those never to fall for anything like this, however a rough day and work and poor mental health has contributed to me making a poor decision. Can I use charge back and potentially get sued for breaking a contract as below I think my rights went out of the window at 7 days. 

I understand the law is the law however I think the law is 7 days for bespoke orders. The lines are just blurred for me with the distance selling as per which link below. 


Fester I also thank you for your comment and I wish it was 14 days but I'm not sure it is as below on the which link. It's very blurred for me! 

Ahh turns out I can't post links! 

Here it is below the information can be found on which. 

Situations where you DON'T legally have the right to cancel

Your windows and doors are made to measure and/or custom made to your specific requirements. There is no right to cancel.

You entered into a contract at the trader or company's office. This is known as an 'on-premises' contract and you do not have a right to cancel.

The trader or salesman has discussed the contract with you at your home, and you agreed to enter into it some time later. This is also classified as an 'on-premises' contract and you do not have a right to cancel.

Although signing an 'on-premises' contract or getting made-to-measure double glazing means the trader or company doesn't legally have to give you the option to cancel, they can offer it in your contract. So it's worth asking about this.

Situations where you DO legally have the right to cancel

If the trader or company visits your home and you verbally agree to the contract or indeed sign one, this is known as an off-premises contract. Under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013, you have to be given a minimum of 14 days as a cooling-off period for off-premises contracts, within which time you can cancel. (As its bespoke I believe this changes to 7 days which I was not made aware of apart from tiny T&cs) 

If you enter into a contract away from the trader or company's premises, such as online or over the phone, this is called an 'distance selling' contract (unless you've already discussed the contract at your home and later agree to it, like in the example above). You also have to be given a minimum of 14 days as a cooling-off period.


The lunatic inside my head - thank you for those links I will have a good read. All the other parts you have quoted are what I've come across really and it is so confusing I think you've pretty much summed up in a much more precise way what I was thinking . I wouldn't lose as much as the 30000 window deposit but it doesn't sit right with me if I lose anything but some sort of cancellation fee. Grumbler is right in saying no precise dimensions have been taken by the surveyor to be able to even start making anything yet. The other thing I can do is speak to the GGF and they can see if the company is following correct protocol and seek advice from them. I will not go with them for less as the work will probably have problems and be more of a nightmare than the thought of losing a desposit. So I will continue to try and get it back and if they resist ask for help from the GGF or a lawyer. 

I arranged this appointment so they didn't just turn up at my door I am really in need of some new windows and as two penny states below the figures have changed so much it is a steer clear situation.

They also offered it without prejudice to me at cost price which I know is rubbish.


Jeepers creepers I'm not sure my house insurance does have legal help I will check this. I will keep you updated I can't be the only one in this situation. For any bespoke products 7 days to cancel is what I'm seeing if it is a distance contract but the lines are blurred which is why I come here. If it was a standard size window I'd have 14 days to cancel which is ridiculous because they haven't made anything yet.

You live and learn I guess. Apologies in advance for an all over the place reply. 

I really appreciate all the comments and advice. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

shesu said:

Grumbler is right in saying no precise dimensions have been taken by the surveyor to be able to even start making anything yet. 

Apologies, I missed that bit in your opening post

The company's loses would on the face of it would be very little, the sales pitch would have happened regardless of whether you purchased or not so it only appears to be some admin.

I don't know if the company has a claim to loss of profit though, in a similar way a consumer may have a claim for loss of a bargain.

Typically, if this were say a venue hire, the company would have to attempt to rebook the date and perhaps they may reduce the price by 10% at the last minute to do this. In that situation they have mitigated their loss and customer breaching the contract is paying the 10% difference.

With double glazing, unless they are booked solid for months on end, they are losing profit if the customer breaches the contract. 

I don't have any support for the double glazing company as those kinds of practices are misleading (and may be a way out also but it's beyond my knowledge). 

One question to note OP, did the T&Cs mention along the lines of "the supply of goods that are made to the consumer’s specifications or are clearly personalised" are exempt from the right to cancel? 

I appreciate you may prefer not to say but it would be interesting to know the deposit amount. 

Additionally the threat of legal action over bad reviews is usually empty threats, the legal costs of defamation claims is typically excessive. 

NSG666

shesu it might be worth moving this / posting on the Consumer Rights Section as different people will see it who might have a clear understanding of the law in this situation - no offence meant to anyone who has posted above.