Fraud Refund Guarantees

Cocktailcat

I would just like to warn people about the devastating effects of being denied this guarantee, by the TSB. After an agonising wait of 3 months, during which they told me they were investigating my case/claim, all they came back with was that they were not the exiting back, for the money I'd lost to a scam. But, I don't understand why it took them 3 months to sate that. That would have been the case immediately wouldn't it? I was scammed by Nano-Markets, and it was they who got me to transfer my money in to a Luno Wallet. From there it was used to buy Bitcoin and then transferred to a Nano-Market account. So, the TSB are saying that Luno is the exiting bank but, Luno say they are not a bank, they're an exchange, and accept no responsibility for my money being lost to the scammers at Nano-Markets. They say they have no way of tracing where my money went because it didn't go to a Luno account. I have lost a huge amount of money and am devastated. I am also very disappointed that the TSB won't even take any responsibility for their failure to raise any red flags during the time I was transferring vast amounts of money out of my account, on a regular basis. They really need to start paying more attention, and they need to warn their customers to be very wary of using Luno Wallets. I have approached the Independent Financial Ombudsman but.......I don't feel that I will be able to hold out much hope of them being able to help me get any of my money back. And I don't know if there is anybody else who could? 

Caz3121

Cocktailcat said:

I was scammed by Nano-Markets, 

this company whose website was registered in January 2021?
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/nano-markets.co
https://www.scamadviser.com/check-website/nano-markets.co
address is a Regus office  (where you can pay for a Virtual Office/get to use the address) with over 50,000 companies registered on Companies House
lots of red flags

ItsComingRome

Realistically the money is gone, the likelihood of anyone doing anything about this is essentially zero.

Be very careful not to get involved with any of the companies who claim they'll get your money back, they're just going to help themselves to more of your money, they won't get anything back.

Pollycat

I think the warning would be better directed against Nano-Markets as they are the company the OP says scammed him. Not TSB.

OP - I'm sorry you lost a huge amount of money.

Cocktailcat

Yes, Nano-Markets are the scammers. And it was they who got the Luno Wallet set up for me. But I am also reeling with the TSB because, despite their Fraud Refund Guarantee, they are rejecting the fact that I was an innocent victim, the very people they say they will never see suffer due to a scam! And because of the agonising wait they put me through, to come to their decision. If it was as clear cut as them not being the exiting bank, why did it take them 3 months to tell me that. They said they were investigating my claim but, what was there to investigate, if they didn't think I had a case? Which they must have thought, given that they don't consider themselves the exiting bank, and so, not responsible! And if Luno are responsible, as the exiting bank ( something they deny), why can't they be held accountable, for compensation?

Pollycat

How much research did you do into this company before you gave them a huge amount of mone

ItsComingRome

Cocktailcat said:

Yes, Nano-Markets are the scammers. And it was they who got the Luno Wallet set up for me. But I am also reeling with the TSB because, despite their Fraud Refund Guarantee, they are rejecting the fact that I was an innocent victim, the very people they say they will never see suffer due to a scam! And because of the agonising wait they put me through, to come to their decision. If it was as clear cut as them not being the exiting bank, why did it take them 3 months to tell me that. They said they were investigating my claim but, what was there to investigate, if they didn't think I had a case? Which they must have thought, given that they don't consider themselves the exiting bank, and so, not responsible! And if Luno are responsible, as the exiting bank ( something they deny), why can't they be held accountable, for compensation?

You may be a victim but it appears TSB won't get involved if there isn't a direct relationship between the scammer and themselves (i.e. the money goes from your bank account into the scammers.)  As it went into a legitimate account with a third party from which you were then scammed, that is why they appear to be washing their hands of this.

Luno is not going to take responsibility because they don't have to (and they're not responsible anyway to be fair).  Some banks have taken it upon themselves to reimburse victims of certain types of fraud, but it is, by and large, voluntary.

eddddy

Cocktailcat said:

...all they came back with was that they were not the exiting back, for the money I'd lost to a scam. But, I don't understand why it took them 3 months to sate that. That would have been the case immediately wouldn't it? I was scammed by Nano-Markets, and it was they who got me to transfer my money in to a Luno Wallet. From there it was used to buy Bitcoin and then transferred to a Nano-Market account...

I suspect it took them 3 months, because they look at fraud claims in the order they receive them - and there was a 3 month queue in front of you.

I guess what they mean is they were not the "exiting institution" - rather than the "exiting bank".

• i.e. It sounds like you transferred money from your TSB account into a  Luno Wallet account - and somebody stole it from your Luno Wallet.

So they judge it the same way as the following:

• You transfer money from your TSB account to a Paypal account - and somebody steals the money from the Paypal account
• You transfer money from your TSB account to a prepaid debit card account - and somebody steals the money from the prepaid debit card account
• You transfer money from your TSB account to a credit card account - and somebody steals the money from the credit card account
• You transfer money from your TSB account to a NatWest account - and somebody steals the money from the NatWest account

In each cast, I guess TSB would say the fraud occurred after you transferred the money, so they are no longer responsible.


However, it seems you believe that the whole thing was fraud from the outset and Nano Markets was involved - i.e. Nano Markets persuaded you to transfer money into a Luna Wallet, because they intended stealing your money. In which case, you might have a stronger argument with TSB.

If so, I guess you need to concentrate on gathering evidence that shows it was a fraud from the outset.


(And just a note for the defamation lawyers. I don't know anything about any of the companies mentioned, and I am not accusing any of them of fraud. I'm just clarifying what I think the OP has said!!!)

  

Cocktailcat

Just wondering how I would go about gathering evidence that would show that Nano Markets intended to steal my money from the very beginning?? The police certainly told me that they were scammers, that they are an off-shore, unregulated, set up when they (the police) checked out the details I gave them, i.e. website and phone numbers)

TripleH

You may need to dig around into the company and try to find any connected parties who are linked to similar situations before.

What do you hope to achieve from this though? (Is it get all or some of your money back and how long are you prepared to keep fighting this?)

The risk is that you pull together enough historical evidence to show this was a scam from the start and risk the bank  turning round and saying they won't pay because you failed to minimise your exposure to scams as this was in the public domain but you ignored it.

You would then need to come up with an argument for that (it's better to think of possible responses to your arguments when researching so you have a comprehensive case ready).

Cocktailcat

Yes, I guess that I was unbelievably naive in all of this. I probably didn't research any of it thoroughly enough. I had just watched an episode of 'This Morning' during which they had somebody on talking about the benefits of investing in Bitcoin. I did some research on Bitcoin and decided to make some enquiries. Unfortunately, I picked the wrong crowd to do that with. I wasn't even doing on-line banking at the time, having always resisted it because I was afraid of being hacked. It was the scammers who got me started doing it because it was the only way to invest. I was adamant, at first, to not invest much at all. i just wanted to generate a small monthly income for myself. However, over time, as I became more trusting, having built up what I thought was a good rapport with my 'account manager' I was persuaded to invest more. And they brought in the so called big guns, to bamboozle me with stats., opportunities, etc. All very cleaver, and manipulative. 
I just hoped that they bank might offer me something back, anything would have been wonderful, but.....................it's not to be. And, I am now not at all hopeful that the Independent Financial Ombudsman will be able to help me achieve that either. At the moment I'm not able to see how I can find a way to get over this but, I can only hope that, eventually, I will.