Pension has finally landed - As an insistent client acting against advice -*DOORS CLOSED 03/09/2021*

zagfles

dunstonh said:

RoadToRiches said:

HappyHarry said:

A complaint to a pension provider that says "I was advised not to transfer by DB pension by a  qualified adviser who carefully looked at my position. However, you accepted the transfer, despite knowing it wasn't in my best interest, and I have now lost out" will be quite difficult to defend.

Get what you say here, but ultimately it was our decision to go against the advice that was plain as day. 

To say that it would fall on the pension provider, I cannot for one minute believe a case like that would be upheld.

A year or two back Barclays lost a case where they allowed a customer to carry out a self-directed instruction on a self instructed investment platform.   It was ruled that they should not have allowed the person get into that position and redress awarded.   
Look at all the self-directed people buying mini-bonds and now looking for compensation.  All those that bought Woodford Income non-advised looking to sue a self-directed platform.    

Is this the same Barclays case you mentioned 5 years ago but couldn't find details of? https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/71584789#Comment_71584789

Re Woodford, AIUI the only reason some are considering suing HL is because they "marketed" the fund, not because they allowed people to invest in it on their platform. Otherwise they'd be looking to sue all platforms which offered the fund, which was probably nearly all of them.

zagfles

HappyHarry said:

GrumpyDil said:

Without commenting on the pros and cons of taking a CETV on a defined benefit scheme it seems that the regulator considers individuals unable to take responsibility for their own decisions. Really scary. 

Thinking about that a little more, isn't every piece of legislation there to stop individuals suffering detriment by their own, or others', actions? 

Pretty much. Wearing seatbelts in cars etc, I'm old enough to remember the arguments about that. "No nanny state is going to tell ME to wear a seatbelt" etc.

HappyHarry

Diplodicus said:

When a potential client asks the inevitable question - "What happens if I still want to transfer against advice?" - what answer shall their adviser make now?

My response would be exactly the same as it would have been previously.

"It would be up to you to find a way to do so, and I will not assist in any way."

If a client was determined to transfer against my advice, I would not help them do so. 

I haven't had that situation yet. Those I have advised not to transfer have stuck with that recommendation.

zagfles

HappyHarry said:

GrumpyDil said:

Without commenting on the pros and cons of taking a CETV on a defined benefit scheme it seems that the regulator considers individuals unable to take responsibility for their own decisions. Really scary. 

That is the world we live in.

The fear is that too many individuals see a CETV from a DB pension as a "lottery win", and blow their retirement without consideration of their later lives. The regulator sees this as "a bad thing", and would prefer to stop it happening.

You see it already with people taking optional lump sums with ridiculously bad commutation rates from their DB pension without a good reason. No advice is required for that.

I think someone said it was something like 90% who take the max lump sum from the LGPS at 1:12, which is appalling. The vast majority of people simply don't have a clue how to compare an annual income with a lump sum and will usually go with the lump sum as it looks big. 

Dale72

zagfles said:

Dale72 said:

I eventually settled on an FA working for HL after finding virtually impossible to get an IFA to do it. Same process I assume, endless graphs and tables showing why i shouldn't do it. Less than 4 weeks in, AJ Bell Sipp value up by 4%. Can I claim my money back for their increasingly poor advice??

Poor advice because of less than 4 week performance history

Is there a point to this comment?

Diplodicus

HappyHarry said:

Diplodicus said:

When a potential client asks the inevitable question - "What happens if I still want to transfer against advice?" - what answer shall their adviser make now?

My response would be exactly the same as it would have been previously.

"It would be up to you to find a way to do so, and I will not assist in any way."

If a client was determined to transfer against my advice, I would not help them do so. 

I haven't had that situation yet. Those I have advised not to transfer have stuck with that recommendation.

Thank you for the candid response Harry but, in reality, that would very probably leave the client unable to transfer. 
So the financial adviser would effectively decide whether a transfer could happen. That's an authority over the process that was never meant to rest on the shoulders of the adviser.

HappyHarry

Diplodicus said:

HappyHarry said:

Diplodicus said:

When a potential client asks the inevitable question - "What happens if I still want to transfer against advice?" - what answer shall their adviser make now?

My response would be exactly the same as it would have been previously.

"It would be up to you to find a way to do so, and I will not assist in any way."

If a client was determined to transfer against my advice, I would not help them do so. 

I haven't had that situation yet. Those I have advised not to transfer have stuck with that recommendation.

Thank you for the candid response Harry but, in reality, that would very probably leave the client unable to transfer. 
So the financial adviser would effectively decide whether a transfer could happen. That's an authority over the process that was never meant to rest on the shoulders of the adviser.

No. Regulations and the client circumstances have decided under such conditions that a transfer cannot take place.

 Neither the adviser nor pension providers should be held culpable for that situation.

Diplodicus

HappyHarry said:

Diplodicus said:

HappyHarry said:

Diplodicus said:

When a potential client asks the inevitable question - "What happens if I still want to transfer against advice?" - what answer shall their adviser make now?

My response would be exactly the same as it would have been previously.

"It would be up to you to find a way to do so, and I will not assist in any way."

If a client was determined to transfer against my advice, I would not help them do so. 

I haven't had that situation yet. Those I have advised not to transfer have stuck with that recommendation.

Thank you for the candid response Harry but, in reality, that would very probably leave the client unable to transfer. 
So the financial adviser would effectively decide whether a transfer could happen. That's an authority over the process that was never meant to rest on the shoulders of the adviser.

No. Regulations and the client circumstances have decided under such conditions that a transfer cannot take place.

 Neither the adviser nor pension providers should be held culpable for that situation.

I don't believe advisers, pension providers nor clients are culpable for that situation; but that appears to be the situation  -- untenable.

xylophone

Thank you for the candid response Harry but, in reality, that would very probably leave the client unable to transfer. 

 Surely it leaves the client in the position that he must do his own research to find a pension provider willing to accept the transfer against advice?

Diplodicus

xylophone said:

Thank you for the candid response Harry but, in reality, that would very probably leave the client unable to transfer. 

 Surely it leaves the client in the position that he must do his own research to find a pension provider willing to accept the transfer against advice?

As far as I know, nobody on this board knows a viable route to transfer against advice (without setting up a decoy stakeholder account and taking the case to the ombudsman). This cohort includes representatives of the financial services and others who spend most of their days on this forum. If they don’t know, what chance has the average client up against a deadline?