Pension has finally landed - As an insistent client acting against advice -*DOORS CLOSED 03/09/2021*

JoeCrystal

RoadToRiches said:

To say that it would fall on the pension provider, I cannot for one minute believe a case like that would be upheld.

  Never say never! It would be interesting to see how it goes few years down the line. It is still very early in the days yet. I know that FCA is very pro-customers. Look at the FCA's recent meetings with the  British steelworkers for example. I read somewhere that steelworkers got £2.4 million in total in compensation for transferring their DB pension schemes out to date. 

Indeed FCA actually actively encouraging you to complain even when you are happy with the transfer in the first place!

ex-pat_scot

RoadToRiches said:

HappyHarry said:

A complaint to a pension provider that says "I was advised not to transfer by DB pension by a  qualified adviser who carefully looked at my position. However, you accepted the transfer, despite knowing it wasn't in my best interest, and I have now lost out" will be quite difficult to defend.

Get what you say here, but ultimately it was our decision to go against the advice that was plain as day. 

To say that it would fall on the pension provider, I cannot for one minute believe a case like that would be upheld.

Sadly you are not in touch with the current regulatory approach, never mind the general direction of travel. 
The provider is second guessing the regulatory culture /approach perhaps 20 years hence.

Prism

RoadToRiches said:

HappyHarry said:

A complaint to a pension provider that says "I was advised not to transfer by DB pension by a  qualified adviser who carefully looked at my position. However, you accepted the transfer, despite knowing it wasn't in my best interest, and I have now lost out" will be quite difficult to defend.

Get what you say here, but ultimately it was our decision to go against the advice that was plain as day. 

To say that it would fall on the pension provider, I cannot for one minute believe a case like that would be upheld.

The platform providers seem to very much believe that it would be upheld.

GrumpyDil

Without commenting on the pros and cons of taking a CETV on a defined benefit scheme it seems that the regulator considers individuals unable to take responsibility for their own decisions. Really scary. 

RoadToRiches

Well if it is that would be a sad day, people should take responsibility for their actions. I for one was glad I managed to swap my DB pension with them for that I am eternally grateful.

HappyHarry

GrumpyDil said:

Without commenting on the pros and cons of taking a CETV on a defined benefit scheme it seems that the regulator considers individuals unable to take responsibility for their own decisions. Really scary. 

That is the world we live in.

The fear is that too many individuals see a CETV from a DB pension as a "lottery win", and blow their retirement without consideration of their later lives. The regulator sees this as "a bad thing", and would prefer to stop it happening.

HappyHarry

GrumpyDil said:

Without commenting on the pros and cons of taking a CETV on a defined benefit scheme it seems that the regulator considers individuals unable to take responsibility for their own decisions. Really scary. 

Thinking about that a little more, isn't every piece of legislation there to stop individuals suffering detriment by their own, or others', actions? 

GunJack

RoadToRiches said:

AND ...
All good things must come to an end, looks like PensionBee have closed the doors.  Guess I was right about this forum. Sorry folkes

I doubt it was this (or any other) forum, it's probably more like their Liability insurance was coming up for renewal.....

Diplodicus

When a potential client asks the inevitable question - "What happens if I still want to transfer against advice?" - what answer shall their adviser make now?

dunstonh

RoadToRiches said:

HappyHarry said:

A complaint to a pension provider that says "I was advised not to transfer by DB pension by a  qualified adviser who carefully looked at my position. However, you accepted the transfer, despite knowing it wasn't in my best interest, and I have now lost out" will be quite difficult to defend.

Get what you say here, but ultimately it was our decision to go against the advice that was plain as day. 

To say that it would fall on the pension provider, I cannot for one minute believe a case like that would be upheld.

You would like to think that but there are several issues, some already mentioned.

The regulator and ombudsman are very liberal in their approach.  The consumer cannot possibly lie.  They may be mistaken but never lie.     Yet there is a whole industry of claims companies. Or shall we call them complaints generators?    They know how to word complaints to maximise the chance of an upheld decision.  When a complaint is involved, truth is no longer a concept.

Nearly half of people in the UK (46% pre Covid according to the FCA and 53% post covid) have vulnerable characteristics.  Not everyone who has those characteristics will be classed as vulnerable.   However, you can bet your life that the claims companies making the DB transfer complaint will make the person sound so vulnerable. Insertingcertain trigger words that appear in the FCA vulnerable client definitions forcing the FOS to consider it.

Such as "Resilience" ;; outgoings exceeding income.  Over-indebtedness. Low Savings. Low emotional resilience.  Or "capability"; poor literacy or numeracy skills. Low knowledge.  Or even health (cancer or life changing illness - often a reason used in transfers but also something that can lead to bad decisions because they are overcome with the negativity of that event)

So, a complaint could say that Mr X had a traumatic year due to Covid-19 where his income was erratic and with his low savings made him anxious about paying his mortgage and credit cards.  Having never really understood investing, he just saw the numbers of the transfer value and thought it was a good idea to transfer the pension and then cash it in to buy gold as the adverts on tv said it is safer than investments.    He was advised not to transfer it but Mr X believed that the adviser was only doing that as he didn't want to invest the money with them and the adviser wasn't thinking about him.  Yet "insert name here" company said it wasn't a problem that the adviser said it wasn't a good idea and they would accept it.     It is only now, after losing most of the pension that he realises the adviser was right.  However, "insert name here" company said it was ok to transfer and they let him get into this position despite him being vulnerable to making bad decisions and they didn't do anything to stop him.


A year or two back Barclays lost a case where they allowed a customer to carry out a self-directed instruction on a self instructed investment platform.   It was ruled that they should not have allowed the person get into that position and redress awarded.   
Look at all the self-directed people buying mini-bonds and now looking for compensation.  All those that bought Woodford Income non-advised looking to sue a self-directed platform.