Pension has finally landed - As an insistent client acting against advice -*DOORS CLOSED 03/09/2021*

Dale72

jimi_man said:

Dale72 said:

While the world of investments goes in cycles there must be a point at which you could look at a Sipp and say I think the IFA was wrong to advise not to transfer. At what point is that? (Sipp up 14%)

Surely that's rather a superficial way to look at it - purely on the basis of value of whether a SIPP has gone up or down relative to the original DB pension? There are a whole raft of other factors that come into play - health, inheritance, spousal benefits, flexibility, inflation, security, investment risk etc. If the (I)FA is only looking at potential SIPP value then I'd have thought that was a little narrow minded. In some cases the person might well expect to gain more via a SIPP - at the expense of some of the factors above. 

Indeed just because a SIPP rises in value more than the DB doesn't mean that the person was wrong to transfer. Advice, whether it is financial or otherwise, is based on the facts at the time. That doesn't necessarily render that advice invalid or incorrect further down the line. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Also, I'm nowhere near as experienced as some others in the world of stock markets, but basing it on a sustained period of growth over the last few years probably gives a slightly distorted perspective.

But given the information he sought from me, regarding experience and tolerance to risk, and also the fact he seemed to rely heavily on the returns I'd have to make from investments to give the same payments as the DB pension in his decision to recommend not to transfer, then the Sipp value is overwhelmingly the key fact.

Thrugelmir

Dale72 said:

Pablo7474 said:

8% every year over 25 years? Are you investing in individual shares or funds? It would be interesting to know how it goes. 

Individual shares, 14 of them in the AJ Bell Sipp, all researched or already held elsewhere before the funds arrived, and if I can't do better than 8% a year over any time period then I'll hold my hands up. Not anticipating the need to though.

You should be working at an investment bank or hedge fund with that level of insight into individual company shares.  

Dale72

Thrugelmir said:

Dale72 said:

Pablo7474 said:

8% every year over 25 years? Are you investing in individual shares or funds? It would be interesting to know how it goes. 

Individual shares, 14 of them in the AJ Bell Sipp, all researched or already held elsewhere before the funds arrived, and if I can't do better than 8% a year over any time period then I'll hold my hands up. Not anticipating the need to though.

You should be working at an investment bank or hedge fund with that level of insight into individual company shares.  

I worked for a broker many years ago, and have added to my knowledge since. I think your overestimating the talents of people at those institutions you mention if you think they can do things than the man in the street can't.

Jeffmusicals

Malthusian said:

Dale72 said:

While the world of investments goes in cycles there must be a point at which you could look at a Sipp and say I think the IFA was wrong to advise not to transfer. At what point is that? (Sipp up 14%)

If someone complains about advice to leave a DB pension where it is on the grounds that they were a risk-seeking investor and should have been advised to transfer, the obvious defence from the adviser is "if they wanted the risk so badly why didn't they just transfer against advice". If the response from the complainant/CMC is "it sounded like a faff and I couldn't be bothered", I think even the FOS will struggle to find sympathy with that one.

The point being of course that you can’t transfer against their advice because there are no longer any vehicles for doing that. A bit of one-way street really with no way back once you’ve taken the advice (and it is “advice” not gospel!) Hey ho, still trawling.. 😀

Pablo7474

Have you tried the SSAS route yet Jeffmusicals? 

Malthusian

Jeffmusicals said:

The point being of course that you can’t transfer against their advice because there are no longer any vehicles for doing that.

Yes there are. But if you think it's a faff and can't be bothered it's a free country.

jimi_man

Jeffmusicals said:

Malthusian said:

Dale72 said:

While the world of investments goes in cycles there must be a point at which you could look at a Sipp and say I think the IFA was wrong to advise not to transfer. At what point is that? (Sipp up 14%)

If someone complains about advice to leave a DB pension where it is on the grounds that they were a risk-seeking investor and should have been advised to transfer, the obvious defence from the adviser is "if they wanted the risk so badly why didn't they just transfer against advice". If the response from the complainant/CMC is "it sounded like a faff and I couldn't be bothered", I think even the FOS will struggle to find sympathy with that one.

The point being of course that you can’t transfer against their advice because there are no longer any vehicles for doing that. A bit of one-way street really with no way back once you’ve taken the advice (and it is “advice” not gospel!) Hey ho, still trawling.. 😀

Well you can transfer against the advice because the rules allow you to. As has been said it is only advice, so there is no compulsion to adhere to it.

The fact that there aren't (m)any companies willing to do this, is down to the market not wanting the business. If the benefit outweighed the costs (real and potential) then the market would be happy to offer it as it would be a good revenue stream.I'm guessing that for 95% of companies this is not the case which is why there are so few companies offering it. 

Diplodicus

Well you cannot transfer against advice if there are no practicable routes for the layman to make that transfer.

If there are, please outline the steps below..

dunstonh

Diplodicus said:

Well you cannot transfer against advice if there are no practicable routes for the layman to make that transfer.

If there are, please outline the steps below..

You can transfer to a SSAS.    

Diplodicus

Can you take us through the administrative steps for doing that, dunstonh?

For the client, would it entail  forming a limited company?