St James Place Wealth Management

WYSPECIAL

cfw1994 said:

It does appear to be entirely about “The Relationship” 🧐
Our pal is, IMHO, not super money-savvy, & is made to feel a million dollars by the SJP rep, from what I could tell.  

No point explaining anything about how well they might perform, how much their charges are, & the lock-ins: I did have a short stab at that a couple of years ago, now I avoid the topic! 🤷‍♂️

It makes him feel good to have his annual lunch….& we all want to feel good, right? 🤣

Each to their own.    

Suppose it's like paying extra to shop in a fancy place or have a personal shopper. Each to their own but it's not for me.

MallyGirl

ex-pat_scot said:

Sea_Shell said:

My Dad's with SJP for an investment bond, and has been for years.   Found out since, and this was all set up before I discovered MSE.

I'm not going to even try broaching the subject with him!   

Ditto. My parents are happy with the relationship they have with SJP.
I was only aware of their involvement when I saw the monogrammed envelope in their post bundle.
I wouldn't dream of challenging them and will only comment if they ask my opinion.
They are grown-ups and have made their own successful decisions for the last 80 years.

Same here. 

zagfles

cfw1994 said:

ex-pat_scot said:

Sea_Shell said:

My Dad's with SJP for an investment bond, and has been for years.   Found out since, and this was all set up before I discovered MSE.

I'm not going to even try broaching the subject with him!   

Ditto. My parents are happy with the relationship they have with SJP.
I was only aware of their involvement when I saw the monogrammed envelope in their post bundle.
I wouldn't dream of challenging them and will only comment if they ask my opinion.
They are grown-ups and have made their own successful decisions for the last 80 years.

It does appear to be entirely about “The Relationship” 🧐
Our pal is, IMHO, not super money-savvy, & is made to feel a million dollars by the SJP rep, from what I could tell.  

No point explaining anything about how well they might perform, how much their charges are, & the lock-ins: I did have a short stab at that a couple of years ago, now I avoid the topic! 🤷‍♂️

It makes him feel good to have his annual lunch….& we all want to feel good, right? 🤣

Each to their own.    

I guess it's a bit like flying first class etc. Charge a fortune for a few superficial extras like a nice lunch and getting fussed over and made to feel like a VIP, never mind the actual underlying product/service...

Albermarle

She is a bit naïve and genuinely believes that it is inconceivable that anyone acting in professional capacity would would purposely  rip someone off.  

When you see stories about people who have been genuinely scammed ( rather than just overcharged ) , they often say ' but the sales guy was so nice and so professional sounding'

I do not know what they expect them to be like . If someone is going to talk you into doing something daft with your money, they are not going to turn up unshaven, in old jeans and be rude to you .

Just Naivety as you say .

AlanP_2

segovia said:

jamesd said:

dunstonh said:

Last person I saw who had us competing against SJP had £500,000.  SJP were charging £25,000 initial fee to our £2,500 and the solution we offered from the whole of market was half the annual cost of SJP.  That gives an indication of the cost differences.

We also did a pension transfer away from SJP some years back which holds the record for us of the largest cost saving.    The difference in projections using the same growth rate (so only charges are the difference) was over £300,000 lower with SJP.  In other words, the effect of charges reduced the pension by £300,000 if the same growth rates were achieved.

It's also worth noting that advisers here are prohibited from contacting people to offer their services but nothing prohibits posters sending them a private message asking for their business contact details.

Frankly, I'd be happy to use dunstonh myself and your friends would be far better off with the services offered there.

jamesd said:

dunstonh said:

Last person I saw who had us competing against SJP had £500,000.  SJP were charging £25,000 initial fee to our £2,500 and the solution we offered from the whole of market was half the annual cost of SJP.  That gives an indication of the cost differences.

We also did a pension transfer away from SJP some years back which holds the record for us of the largest cost saving.    The difference in projections using the same growth rate (so only charges are the difference) was over £300,000 lower with SJP.  In other words, the effect of charges reduced the pension by £300,000 if the same growth rates were achieved.

It's also worth noting that advisers here are prohibited from contacting people to offer their services but nothing prohibits posters sending them a private message asking for their business contact details.

Frankly, I'd be happy to use dunstonh myself and your friends would be far better off with the services offered there.

jamesd said:

dunstonh said:

Last person I saw who had us competing against SJP had £500,000.  SJP were charging £25,000 initial fee to our £2,500 and the solution we offered from the whole of market was half the annual cost of SJP.  That gives an indication of the cost differences.

We also did a pension transfer away from SJP some years back which holds the record for us of the largest cost saving.    The difference in projections using the same growth rate (so only charges are the difference) was over £300,000 lower with SJP.  In other words, the effect of charges reduced the pension by £300,000 if the same growth rates were achieved.

It's also worth noting that advisers here are prohibited from contacting people to offer their services but nothing prohibits posters sending them a private message asking for their business contact details.

Frankly, I'd be happy to use dunstonh myself and your friends would be far better off with the services offered there.

The objective of my post was twofold 


1, Are my opinions about SJP's excessive charging structure were valid 
2, As an exercise in educating my wife that "not all that glitters is not gold" 

She is a bit naive and genuinely believes that it is inconceivable that anyone acting in professional capacity would would purposely  rip someone off.  

Lessons learned, there "are" sharks in the water. 

   

Some people are of the opinion that all financial advisers are sharks and should never, ever be used.

That suits them but is of no use to a significant number of people who do not want to DIY and therefore want an adviser.

IFAs and FAs, in general I believe, act in a professional capacity and do not aim to rip people off, there are exceptions as you will get in any group of people.

SJP do not rip people off in the sense of being a con but a case can be made that better value options are available. They are the Harley Street v local BUPA hospital equivalent if thought of in private healthcare terms.

The Harley Street client is paying more for what they perceive as better quality service. Whether it is or not doesn't matter, it is the perception, and as has been mentioned on here SJP are very god at marketing themselves. 

segovia

When anyone decides to engage with an IFA and a third party investment vehicle/platform for the management pension, either at the growth or drawdown stage I don't think they fully consider the full implications of the long term relationship. Its not something you try and and then bail out. The relationship should last a lifetime for it to be truly effective and when the fees are compounded that adds up to a significant amount over a 20 / 30 year period. Looking at the SJP fee structure again they lock you in for 6 years with penalties, 1% a year. I believe this to be 5% due if you terminate in year one which is 50k. Could they really justify that if they needed show they lost 50k due to early termination, I doubt it 

Ibrahim5

I always find it reassuring that a company can charge so much and still have happy customers. It shows how good the returns from 'investments' are. I invest myself and pay tiny fees so as long as they are in similar investments I should be laughing.

zagfles

Albermarle said:

She is a bit naïve and genuinely believes that it is inconceivable that anyone acting in professional capacity would would purposely  rip someone off.  

When you see stories about people who have been genuinely scammed ( rather than just overcharged ) , they often say ' but the sales guy was so nice and so professional sounding'

I do not know what they expect them to be like . If someone is going to talk you into doing something daft with your money, they are not going to turn up unshaven, in old jeans and be rude to you .

Just Naivety as you say .

The fact that there even is a "sales guy" is a warning sign. Good products and services sell themselves, they don't need salesmen to come to you and persuade you.

We've just had some new doors and windows fitted, we had to wait about 6 months for the local firm we'd used before to do it - they have such a backlog because they're well known in the area for their excellent work and very reasonable prices. But when we first contacted them we left a message, they took ages to get back to us, when they did they couldn't give a date, just "sometime in the next few months". They turned up unannounced to do the measuring up a few weeks later. Their quote took another month. Then another few months or so before they started, they gave us a date with a few days notice. Appalling sales techniques. But they don't need sales, they're always busy actually working. The job was excellent and very good price.

Whereas on the local facebook group where people can ask for/recommend tradepeoples and tradespeople can respond, there are loads of tradepeople who constantly respond or are "recommended" (probably by friends/relatives, definitely in one case I know!). Those who spend all their time online touting for business or will send a saleman round "for a quote" in the next day or so are likely to be ones to avoid, the ones that put lots of effort into sales and touting for business usually have to for a reason...

Ibrahim5

It's interesting how people use private healthcare and medicine. When I was growing up we had a local private school that was rubbish. The clever people pay to get the best education in the world or pay for the best surgeon for that particular operation. Researching it can be a bit tricky. I remember talking to a famous plastic surgeon. He was saying he could charge a fraction of his fees but it might damage his business. Everyone wanted to see the most expensive plastic surgeon not the cheapest.

handful

I'm a bit ashamed to admit I have one of my pension funds with SJP.

It was due to a family member working for them at the time which is probably even worse apart from the fact I don't pay advisor charges but am tied in for the 6 years without significant exit fees.

In all fairness, the investment performance has been "OK". Not the best for sure but far from the worst and acceptable without the benefit of hindsight. I discovered all the bad press a few months ago and stopped making additional contributions, now paying them into a SIPP instead and I will transfer the SJP pension into the SIPP as well when the time is right. The worst part is the 6 year tie in also applies to every monthly contribution that I've made as well as the original investment around 4-5 years ago. I will just transfer a year's worth of contributions each year until it's all moved.  Hey ho, every day's a school day and at least I have investments elsewhere that are doing ok.