Shared driveway or not shared driveway

James-may

I'm about to purchase a property and assumed there was a shared driveway between my semi, and the semi next doors semi detached as that's what was put on the sellers responsibilities thing (is it a ta1).
However looking at the original sale documents from the searches the house was purchased from the council, it doesn't mention it having a shared drive, it says you can apply for one if both parties of adjoining properties agree (not sure if it counts as adjoining).
The land registry map just shows my boundary as straight down the middle, it's a perfect rectangle that included my back garden and splits half way between my house and the council owned house next door.
Looking at the "shared drive", it does look like each side has been concreted, with a unconverted gap between each side where a fence would have ran, but I'm guessing it was taken down at some point and a proper drive entrance added.

My solicitors is awaiting a response from seller about the drive, so I'd imagine they have the same question.

I'm not majorly bothered about wether I use the drive or not, as there is parking bays right in front of my door anyway, but obviously at some point I may decide to change things around, and would need to know what I can and can't do.
Any ideas?

peterhjohnson

The LR map shows who owns the land. There may also be stuff in the deeds about your neighbour having a right of way over your half and vice-versa.

I have this arrangement because where our drive meets the road, it's too narrow for more than one vehicle. Further back it widens to access our two garages. The LR map shows a line down the middle. On its own, that looks like we each have a useless narrow strip each but the deeds give each of us a right of way over each others half.

Section62

James-may said:

However looking at the original sale documents from the searches the house was purchased from the council, it doesn't mention it having a shared drive, it says you can apply for one if both parties of adjoining properties agree (not sure if it counts as adjoining).

If the council still own the property next door (which definitely is adjoining) then the situation in the BiB possibly hasn't happened because the occupier next door (being a council tenant) couldn't make that application or give their agreement.

It would have required consent from the council (as owner) to make a shared driveway - and that should have created further correspondence and documents, as well as some form of right of way agreement over your land for the benefit of the council tenant (and vice versa).

So unless those documents exist, you probably have a path next to your house, not a shared driveway.


You also need to check whether any parking bays in the front garden have been made legally rather than assuming they are. They should have a dropped kerb for access, and possibly required consent to make the alteration from the council (as beneficiary of a covenant), as well as a possible need for planning consent (depending on when they were built, and also on the type of road)

James-may

Turns out there is no official driveway between houses.
Around the mid 1980s between the 2 houses they decided to use the space as a driveway to park their cars, nothing formal was ever arranged other than telling their lender at the time.
My solicitor has asked for an indemnity policy to be taken out incase the council or someone else decides it isn't right and persues me.

The parking on the pavement area is legit, the whole street has these put in by the council.

So it seems legally the space should be 2 paths leading down the sides if the houses with a fence or wall separating each side.

The thing now is how to proceed in regards to the neighbour.
I mean Im not that concerned about the parking as there are bays available.

My priorities aren't in that part of the house at the moment, but maybe in 5 years once I get the rest of the house right, I may look at doing something there.
I might need to casually mention it to the neighbour one day when I meet them, so that they are aware it isn't legally a driveway.

I don't want to annoy new neighbours with something that isn't an issue right now lol.

Section62

James-may said:

My solicitor has asked for an indemnity policy to be taken out incase the council or someone else decides it isn't right and persues me.

That seems a completely pointless waste of money.  If someone complains about you parking on the not-actually-a-shared drive then you'd just stop doing it, an indemnity policy isn't going to give you a right to carry on.

The worst case I can think of is if using the area as a drive causes damage to the surface, and the other owner (the council?) tries to make a claim against you for repairs.  An indemnity policy isn't likely to pay for the repair work, and presumably if you started seeing damage happening you'd stop parking there.

The only serious issue is if the driveway doesn't have a dropped kerb and the council tell you to stop driving across the footway or verge, then if you continue to do so you risk prosecution and a fine. But again, this is not something an indemnity policy is likely to help with.

It think the approach you suggest makes sense (because you have alternative parking options). Wait until you've moved in, have a friendly chat with the neighbour.

homersimpson246

In my view I would never buy a property with a shared drive or shared access road, there are just to many opportunities for it to go wrong and leave you with an issue that dramatically affects the value of your property and your ability to use.

You can have 20 years of it being fine and then a new neighbor moves in and it then suddenly becomes a problem.

On the road I grew up in most of the houses further up had built garages at the back and unoffically shared the space between them to get to them.   Over time some people have put up fences meaning the garages have become nothing more than storage sheds.  One guy even had an old car in there that he now can't get out!

James-may

homersimpson246 said:

In my view I would never buy a property with a shared drive or shared access road, there are just to many opportunities for it to go wrong and leave you with an issue that dramatically affects the value of your property and your ability to use.

You can have 20 years of it being fine and then a new neighbor moves in and it then suddenly becomes a problem.

On the road I grew up in most of the houses further up had built garages at the back and unoffically shared the space between them to get to them.   Over time some people have put up fences meaning the garages have become nothing more than storage sheds.  One guy even had an old car in there that he now can't get out!

As it turns out it's not a shared drive, only 2 paths down between the houses leading to gardens, there's no garages, just that at some point so done has decided to remove the border fence and use the space to park thee car.

As I said I'm not overly bothered about using the space, the neighbour owns a car and seems to regularly park there, so I'll let them continue with that for the forseeable, but as it hasn't been applied for, I may in the future put a fence back up down the middle, but that won't be for years.

James-may

Section62 said:

James-may said:

My solicitor has asked for an indemnity policy to be taken out incase the council or someone else decides it isn't right and persues me.

That seems a completely pointless waste of money.  If someone complains about you parking on the not-actually-a-shared drive then you'd just stop doing it, an indemnity policy isn't going to give you a right to carry on.

The worst case I can think of is if using the area as a drive causes damage to the surface, and the other owner (the council?) tries to make a claim against you for repairs.  An indemnity policy isn't likely to pay for the repair work, and presumably if you started seeing damage happening you'd stop parking there.

The only serious issue is if the driveway doesn't have a dropped kerb and the council tell you to stop driving across the footway or verge, then if you continue to do so you risk prosecution and a fine. But again, this is not something an indemnity policy is likely to help with.

It think the approach you suggest makes sense (because you have alternative parking options). Wait until you've moved in, have a friendly chat with the neighbour.

I kind of thought that, but my solicitors reason was that it wouldn't be needed, but they would need to seek approval from my lender, which could take a month, and the answer from lender may be, to go with whatever the solicitor suggests, so to save time, an indemnity policy at £70 would stop the delay.
I think it was more of a workaround, the delay in completion would probably cost me £100 in extra rent as my rent is more than the mortgage, so there's that.
No Biggie, but I can be in the house a month later and it will cost me £100 in rent or I can be in the house a month earlier and gain £30 , the difference between policy and rent saved.🤣

I mean it's pennies really, but I'd rather cough the £70 to get in a month early.

Section62

James-may said:

Section62 said:

James-may said:

My solicitor has asked for an indemnity policy to be taken out incase the council or someone else decides it isn't right and persues me.

That seems a completely pointless waste of money.  If someone complains about you parking on the not-actually-a-shared drive then you'd just stop doing it, an indemnity policy isn't going to give you a right to carry on.

The worst case I can think of is if using the area as a drive causes damage to the surface, and the other owner (the council?) tries to make a claim against you for repairs.  An indemnity policy isn't likely to pay for the repair work, and presumably if you started seeing damage happening you'd stop parking there.

The only serious issue is if the driveway doesn't have a dropped kerb and the council tell you to stop driving across the footway or verge, then if you continue to do so you risk prosecution and a fine. But again, this is not something an indemnity policy is likely to help with.

It think the approach you suggest makes sense (because you have alternative parking options). Wait until you've moved in, have a friendly chat with the neighbour.

I kind of thought that, but my solicitors reason was that it wouldn't be needed, but they would need to seek approval from my lender, which could take a month, and the answer from lender may be, to go with whatever the solicitor suggests, so to save time, an indemnity policy at £70 would stop the delay.
I think it was more of a workaround, the delay in completion would probably cost me £100 in extra rent as my rent is more than the mortgage, so there's that.
No Biggie, but I can be in the house a month later and it will cost me £100 in rent or I can be in the house a month earlier and gain £30 , the difference between policy and rent saved.🤣

I mean it's pennies really, but I'd rather cough the £70 to get in a month early.

It would have been cheaper and quicker for the solicitor to tell your lender you have no intention of parking on the not-a-shared driveway and instead would park in one of the official bays.

From the lender's perspective it doesn't matter whether you were personally pursued for parking there.

All that would matter to them is whether not having a shared drive negatively impacts on the value of the property, or if the neighbour is likely to claim a right to park on your land and cause problems in selling the property at a later date.

The first of those should be covered by a competent valuation of the property, the second by a competent solicitor confirming that the neighbour cannot acquire a right to park on land they don't own in these circumstances.

Unless the lender had already queried the status of the shared driveway and indicated it was a problem for them then I believe your solicitor's advice is not what it could be.

Cakeguts

James-may said:

homersimpson246 said:

In my view I would never buy a property with a shared drive or shared access road, there are just to many opportunities for it to go wrong and leave you with an issue that dramatically affects the value of your property and your ability to use.

You can have 20 years of it being fine and then a new neighbor moves in and it then suddenly becomes a problem.

On the road I grew up in most of the houses further up had built garages at the back and unoffically shared the space between them to get to them.   Over time some people have put up fences meaning the garages have become nothing more than storage sheds.  One guy even had an old car in there that he now can't get out!

As it turns out it's not a shared drive, only 2 paths down between the houses leading to gardens, there's no garages, just that at some point so done has decided to remove the border fence and use the space to park thee car.

As I said I'm not overly bothered about using the space, the neighbour owns a car and seems to regularly park there, so I'll let them continue with that for the forseeable, but as it hasn't been applied for, I may in the future put a fence back up down the middle, but that won't be for years.

You won't get the neighbour to stop parking whatever vehicle they want to there.  The council won't enforce it.  Just hope that the neighbour doesn't have a relative with a big van that compelely blocks your path.    There is absolutely no incentive for the neighbour to ever stop parking there because they don't own their house and are not worried if they get into a dispute with you over this.

James-may

Cakeguts said:

James-may said:

homersimpson246 said:

In my view I would never buy a property with a shared drive or shared access road, there are just to many opportunities for it to go wrong and leave you with an issue that dramatically affects the value of your property and your ability to use.

You can have 20 years of it being fine and then a new neighbor moves in and it then suddenly becomes a problem.

On the road I grew up in most of the houses further up had built garages at the back and unoffically shared the space between them to get to them.   Over time some people have put up fences meaning the garages have become nothing more than storage sheds.  One guy even had an old car in there that he now can't get out!

As it turns out it's not a shared drive, only 2 paths down between the houses leading to gardens, there's no garages, just that at some point so done has decided to remove the border fence and use the space to park thee car.

As I said I'm not overly bothered about using the space, the neighbour owns a car and seems to regularly park there, so I'll let them continue with that for the forseeable, but as it hasn't been applied for, I may in the future put a fence back up down the middle, but that won't be for years.

You won't get the neighbour to stop parking whatever vehicle they want to there.  The council won't enforce it.  Just hope that the neighbour doesn't have a relative with a big van that compelely blocks your path.    There is absolutely no incentive for the neighbour to ever stop parking there because they don't own their house and are not worried if they get into a dispute with you over this.

We'll they will stop if I put a wall down boundary line between our properties like there should be🤣
They won't fit a car in the gap there would be left.
A van won't block anything as I don't really intend on using the space to park on, I'm content to park on the council provided spaces of which there are many right outside the house.