Maximum fence height with two-tier garden

TDPIX

Hi all,

We're soon going to be moving to a house with a two-tier garden. The immediate garden is at the same ground level as the house, then there's steps down to a second tier garden.

There's a 'see through' metal fence along the edge of the first garden, then a wooden panel fence on the edge of the lower garden. Basically it's like this:



(full size)

Our concern is that garden 1 is currently overlooked from the top floor windows of our neighbour's houses at the back. (Yes it's our choice to buy a house like this, etc)

Anywhoo, what's the maximum fence height in this case? Can we replace the small metal fence with a 1.8m wooden fence, for example?

I know typically the maximum fence height is 2m and permitted development guidance says the following:

Where ground level is not uniform (for example if the ground is sloping), then the ground level is the highest part of the surface of the ground next to the building.)

But it's still a bit confusing, so any input would be appreciated.

Thanks!

TELLIT01

There was a similar query recently and somebody posted guidance that the fence, if on the boundary, shouldn't be more than 2 metres above the lower garden.  I doubt that would apply to something (a) entirely on your own property and (b) a distance from the boundary.

Jeepers_Creepers

I imagine it's as Tellit says - this is not a boundary fence, so would more likely be considered a 'construction' within your own garden - a bit like a shed - and with these guidelines governing height.

https://www.shedstore.co.uk/how-big-can-i-build-a-shed-in-my-garden

If anyone questions you about a 2m high fence, just say "Oops - I'd better take it down - and replace it with a 4m high elongated shed." Jesting, of course...

Section62

TELLIT01 said:

There was a similar query recently and somebody posted guidance that the fence, if on the boundary, shouldn't be more than 2 metres above the lower garden.  I doubt that would apply to something (a) entirely on your own property and (b) a distance from the boundary.

For PD and fences the only relevance of boundaries is if the fence is going on a boundary with a vehicular highway.

The 2m rule applies to fences "elsewhere" - I've not (yet) found a source that suggests fences not on boundaries are excluded from that, so I'd interpret "elsewhere" as being anywhere within the plot.

Logically that would need to be the case, otherwise people could put up a 3m fence 300mm (say) from the boundary and claim "it is within the plot, not on the boundary" - and to prevent that loophole the regulations would need to be formulated as they are for outbuildings, e.g. with differing limits depending on the proximity to boundaries.

So, I would say that with PD the OP can have a fence up to 2m, measured from Garden 2 (the lower one.) - i.e. the height of the retaining structure is included in the measurement.

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/20/fences_gates_and_garden_walls


But that assumes that PD rights haven't been removed, and also that there are no covenants or planning conditions limiting the height further. Those also need to be checked out.

Soot2006

Agree with Section62, however also point out that these things only matter if someone complains to the council and the council decide to enforce. In reality, you would likely get away with a taller fence, but you'd need to accept that you were technically breaking the rules.

Mojisola

TDPIX said:

There's a 'see through' metal fence along the edge of the first garden, then a wooden panel fence on the edge of the lower garden.

Our concern is that garden 1 is currently overlooked from the top floor windows of our neighbour's houses at the back.

Can we replace the small metal fence with a 1.8m wooden fence, for example?

Who is going to complain to the council if you do put up a 2m fence?

The fence between us and our neighbours is over 2m - we are both happy with the privacy it gives us. 

Your neighbours might not be bothered by the higher fence - or even prefer it to seeing into your house every time they look out of their windows and knowing that you can look in their house.

Depending on how much land you've got in the lower garden, another option is to grow an evergreen hedge along your side of the fence - that can go much higher than the 2m of the fence.  Family members who had the lower house in a similar situation did that to get some privacy.

TELLIT01

The 2 metre rule raises an interesting situation for me.  We put in sections of trellis about 2.4 metres high to hide the back of our neighbours ugly old sheds.  That wasn't an issue as only we could see them.  New neighbours have moved in and demolished the sheds.  They haven't complained and I don't think they will, but I wonder what the legal situation would be if they did.

TDPIX

Thanks everyone, that's all helpful.

Yes I agree it's unlikely to be an issue unless someone complained and the council enforced it, but it's good to know.

@Mojisola, the hedge is also a good suggestion. There is actually a planter in garden 1 right by the small metal fence, so that approach could work well.

Slinky

I'm sure your neighbours would prefer your higher fence at the position closer to your house than a hedge on the lower boundary which will shade/cut light to their garden much more.

You could always be a bit radical and go and speak to them?

Jeepers_Creepers

I'd have thought it extremely unlikely for there to be any objection from a neighb to you having a 2m - or even higher - fence along that raised edge to provide privacy screening.

In the unlikely event that someone does object, and especially if it's clearly out of smug bludy-mindedness, just mention one word... 'leylandii'.

Section62

Jeepers_Creepers said:

In the unlikely event that someone does object, and especially if it's clearly out of smug bludy-mindedness, just mention one word... 'leylandii'.

I see your 'leylandii', and raise you 'Section 65 of the Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003' *

Which (along with other factors) defines a 'high hedge' as one more than -> 2 metres <- tall.


(* P.S. somehow my phone was accidentally recording when you threatened to plant a leylandii hedge because I had the audacity to complain about your unlawful fence. Oops.)