Occupational Health report

ringer

Sorry long post.
The company I've been employed by for 16 years are moving to a 24/7 shift pattern across my site. As a consequence I'd be required to work a 4 on 4 off 12 hour shifts involving nights and days. I currently work a 8 hour double day shift that doesn't require night work.

I have had health issues with my heart so had concerns regarding the new shift pattern. 

The HR department made a occupational health appointment and the resulting report advised against 12 hr shifts and night work and also that my condition was probably covered by a disability act.

I've had a interview with HR.
I didn't have Union representation because my rep was of sick, but chose to continue with the meeting. I was informed that reduced hours in my current position wasn't an option. They mentioned a couple of positions that I could apply for, which I don't think I'd get. The only option really was the possibility of working in the warehouse driving a forklift truck, but it would still be a 12 hr shift. I don't have a license and have no previous warehouse experience and it's giving me anxiety thinking about it.
The end of the meeting I was informed of the possibility of termination of employment due to ill health.
I'm led to believe they're required to make reasonable adjustments because of the disability act. 
I'm going to contact Acas for their advice but was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on my predicament?
Thank you.

 

Jillanddy

Sorry, but they are required to consider reasonable adjustments, but problem with that is that the only arbiter of what is or is not reasonable is a court of law. Which will only happen after you have been terminated, if it is thought there are grounds to challenge their decisions. Based on what you have said here, they are certainly appearing to be approaching this in the correct way. The first steps are whether you can have a different shift pattern than everyone else - which is probably a nigh on impossible ask. So if that cannot be managed they would then look at whether there are other jobs that you could do, even if those required some adjustments. But in the end, if what they have to offer isn't suitable for you, then dismissal would be the normal route an employer would take. It would then be up to you to show that they could have reasonably done something else other than terminate your employment. 

Go back to your union - unions don't grind to a halt because one person is off sick. If you contact your local office or branch someone else will be available. 

ringer

Thank you for the quick response.
It's a big international company and I'm sure they're ticking all the boxes. But I haven't (at this stage) been offered any alternative really, apart from a fork lift truck job that is a 12 hour shift. 
I will contact the Union local office.

Undervalued

ringer said:

Sorry long post.
The company I've been employed by for 16 years are moving to a 24/7 shift pattern across my site. As a consequence I'd be required to work a 4 on 4 off 12 hour shifts involving nights and days. I currently work a 8 hour double day shift that doesn't require night work.

I have had health issues with my heart so had concerns regarding the new shift pattern. 

The HR department made a occupational health appointment and the resulting report advised against 12 hr shifts and night work and also that my condition was probably covered by a disability act.

I've had a interview with HR.
I didn't have Union representation because my rep was of sick, but chose to continue with the meeting. I was informed that reduced hours in my current position wasn't an option. They mentioned a couple of positions that I could apply for, which I don't think I'd get. The only option really was the possibility of working in the warehouse driving a forklift truck, but it would still be a 12 hr shift. I don't have a license and have no previous warehouse experience and it's giving me anxiety thinking about it.
The end of the meeting I was informed of the possibility of termination of employment due to ill health.
I'm led to believe they're required to make reasonable adjustments because of the disability act. 
I'm going to contact Acas for their advice but was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on my predicament?
Thank you.

 

Well first you need to establish for certain (as far as is possible) if your condition does amount to a disability for these purposes.

If it does then you are in a stronger position but "reasonable adjustments" don't actually go as far a many people fondly imagine. Generally more is expected of a larger organisation than would be the case if you worked for a small business.

Many larger organisations actually do far more to help disabled employees than the law would actually require.

thebrexitunicorn

ringer said:

Sorry long post.
The company I've been employed by for 16 years are moving to a 24/7 shift pattern across my site. As a consequence I'd be required to work a 4 on 4 off 12 hour shifts involving nights and days. I currently work a 8 hour double day shift that doesn't require night work.

I have had health issues with my heart so had concerns regarding the new shift pattern. 

The HR department made a occupational health appointment and the resulting report advised against 12 hr shifts and night work and also that my condition was probably covered by a disability act.

I've had a interview with HR.
I didn't have Union representation because my rep was of sick, but chose to continue with the meeting. I was informed that reduced hours in my current position wasn't an option. They mentioned a couple of positions that I could apply for, which I don't think I'd get. The only option really was the possibility of working in the warehouse driving a forklift truck, but it would still be a 12 hr shift. I don't have a license and have no previous warehouse experience and it's giving me anxiety thinking about it.
The end of the meeting I was informed of the possibility of termination of employment due to ill health.
I'm led to believe they're required to make reasonable adjustments because of the disability act. 
I'm going to contact Acas for their advice but was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on my predicament?
Thank you.

 

You’re capable of doing your current role, it’s the change that’s the problem.  A capability dismissal happens when someone can no longer do the job that they’re employed to do. 

Potentially if there isn’t a suitable role it could be a redundancy situation.  Your current role (8 hour shift) is no longer going to be available, it’s changing.   I’d be interested to know what your contract states about working hours/shifts.  

I’d definitely be seeking advice from the union.  If your rep can’t advise they should be able to put you in touch with someone who can.  Might also be worth contacting the acas helpline to discuss your options.  

ringer

I certainly wouldn't describe myself as disabled, however I had been advised in the past I would be covered by the 2011 disability act. The occupational health doctor also stated in his report that he thought my condition would come under the disability act.
So the reasonable adjustments they have suggested ( I would have to apply for the position) is a 4 X 12 hr day shift on a fork lift truck. I am 56 and don't have a FLT license, and my health report advised against increased hours and 12 hour shifts.
I did voice my concerns at a meeting, but they thought 12 hours on a fork lift truck would be ok. 
I know my workplace only have to make reasonable adjustments to comply, and maybe they have, I don't really know.

ringer

thebrexitunicorn said:

ringer said:

Sorry long post.
The company I've been employed by for 16 years are moving to a 24/7 shift pattern across my site. As a consequence I'd be required to work a 4 on 4 off 12 hour shifts involving nights and days. I currently work a 8 hour double day shift that doesn't require night work.

I have had health issues with my heart so had concerns regarding the new shift pattern. 

The HR department made a occupational health appointment and the resulting report advised against 12 hr shifts and night work and also that my condition was probably covered by a disability act.

I've had a interview with HR.
I didn't have Union representation because my rep was of sick, but chose to continue with the meeting. I was informed that reduced hours in my current position wasn't an option. They mentioned a couple of positions that I could apply for, which I don't think I'd get. The only option really was the possibility of working in the warehouse driving a forklift truck, but it would still be a 12 hr shift. I don't have a license and have no previous warehouse experience and it's giving me anxiety thinking about it.
The end of the meeting I was informed of the possibility of termination of employment due to ill health.
I'm led to believe they're required to make reasonable adjustments because of the disability act. 
I'm going to contact Acas for their advice but was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on my predicament?
Thank you.

 

You’re capable of doing your current role, it’s the change that’s the problem.  A capability dismissal happens when someone can no longer do the job that they’re employed to do. 

Potentially if there isn’t a suitable role it could be a redundancy situation.  Your current role (8 hour shift) is no longer going to be available, it’s changing.   I’d be interested to know what your contract states about working hours/shifts.  

I’d definitely be seeking advice from the union.  If your rep can’t advise they should be able to put you in touch with someone who can.  Might also be worth contacting the acas helpline to discuss your options.  

I did mention redundancy and was told it didn't apply because my position was still there. I will contact Acas.
Interesting comment regarding capability dismissal.
Thank you.

Monsternextdoor

ringer said:

I certainly wouldn't describe myself as disabled, however I had been advised in the past I would be covered by the 2011 disability act. The occupational health doctor also stated in his report that he thought my condition would come under the disability act.
So the reasonable adjustments they have suggested ( I would have to apply for the position) is a 4 X 12 hr day shift on a fork lift truck. I am 56 and don't have a FLT license, and my health report advised against increased hours and 12 hour shifts.
I did voice my concerns at a meeting, but they thought 12 hours on a fork lift truck would be ok. 
I know my workplace only have to make reasonable adjustments to comply, and maybe they have, I don't really know.

You do describe yourself as disabled, Dont down play this to the employer.

I have had similar happen to me, I had to remind them that they knew when they took me on that I was disabled and it wasn't a problem, But now that they have changed the job description it left me unable to do the work. I offered them reasonable adjustments as mine is a physical disability and they refused them as it didn't suit them. 

Well that didn't suit me so my doctor signed me off for 3 months They didn't know that I was leaving anyway as my husband had to move his job to a different part of the country. I did get a wonderful 3 months off tho

Undervalued

ringer said:

thebrexitunicorn said:

ringer said:

Sorry long post.
The company I've been employed by for 16 years are moving to a 24/7 shift pattern across my site. As a consequence I'd be required to work a 4 on 4 off 12 hour shifts involving nights and days. I currently work a 8 hour double day shift that doesn't require night work.

I have had health issues with my heart so had concerns regarding the new shift pattern. 

The HR department made a occupational health appointment and the resulting report advised against 12 hr shifts and night work and also that my condition was probably covered by a disability act.

I've had a interview with HR.
I didn't have Union representation because my rep was of sick, but chose to continue with the meeting. I was informed that reduced hours in my current position wasn't an option. They mentioned a couple of positions that I could apply for, which I don't think I'd get. The only option really was the possibility of working in the warehouse driving a forklift truck, but it would still be a 12 hr shift. I don't have a license and have no previous warehouse experience and it's giving me anxiety thinking about it.
The end of the meeting I was informed of the possibility of termination of employment due to ill health.
I'm led to believe they're required to make reasonable adjustments because of the disability act. 
I'm going to contact Acas for their advice but was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on my predicament?
Thank you.

 

You’re capable of doing your current role, it’s the change that’s the problem.  A capability dismissal happens when someone can no longer do the job that they’re employed to do. 

Potentially if there isn’t a suitable role it could be a redundancy situation.  Your current role (8 hour shift) is no longer going to be available, it’s changing.   I’d be interested to know what your contract states about working hours/shifts.  

I’d definitely be seeking advice from the union.  If your rep can’t advise they should be able to put you in touch with someone who can.  Might also be worth contacting the acas helpline to discuss your options.  

I did mention redundancy and was told it didn't apply because my position was still there. I will contact Acas.
Interesting comment regarding capability dismissal.
Thank you.

I don't totally agree with thebrexitunicorn's comment about capability dismissal.

If adjustments are needed to allow you to fulfil your role and they go beyond what would be regarded as "reasonable adjustments" the firm could refuse and look towards a capability dismissal. If that were to happen it would then come down to whether an employment tribunal agreed with their assessment of what is reasonable.

Either way it is not a redundancy situation but of course the firm could offer you a settlement agreement to "go quietly" in exchange for a sum of money and signing away any legal claim.

ringer

Very frustrating. Would the fact that a new shift pattern is being implemented have no bearing on the situation.

Jillanddy

Undervalued said:

ringer said:

thebrexitunicorn said:

ringer said:

Sorry long post.
The company I've been employed by for 16 years are moving to a 24/7 shift pattern across my site. As a consequence I'd be required to work a 4 on 4 off 12 hour shifts involving nights and days. I currently work a 8 hour double day shift that doesn't require night work.

I have had health issues with my heart so had concerns regarding the new shift pattern. 

The HR department made a occupational health appointment and the resulting report advised against 12 hr shifts and night work and also that my condition was probably covered by a disability act.

I've had a interview with HR.
I didn't have Union representation because my rep was of sick, but chose to continue with the meeting. I was informed that reduced hours in my current position wasn't an option. They mentioned a couple of positions that I could apply for, which I don't think I'd get. The only option really was the possibility of working in the warehouse driving a forklift truck, but it would still be a 12 hr shift. I don't have a license and have no previous warehouse experience and it's giving me anxiety thinking about it.
The end of the meeting I was informed of the possibility of termination of employment due to ill health.
I'm led to believe they're required to make reasonable adjustments because of the disability act. 
I'm going to contact Acas for their advice but was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on my predicament?
Thank you.

 

You’re capable of doing your current role, it’s the change that’s the problem.  A capability dismissal happens when someone can no longer do the job that they’re employed to do. 

Potentially if there isn’t a suitable role it could be a redundancy situation.  Your current role (8 hour shift) is no longer going to be available, it’s changing.   I’d be interested to know what your contract states about working hours/shifts.  

I’d definitely be seeking advice from the union.  If your rep can’t advise they should be able to put you in touch with someone who can.  Might also be worth contacting the acas helpline to discuss your options.  

I did mention redundancy and was told it didn't apply because my position was still there. I will contact Acas.
Interesting comment regarding capability dismissal.
Thank you.

I don't totally agree with thebrexitunicorn's comment about capability dismissal.

If adjustments are needed to allow you to fulfil your role and they go beyond what would be regarded as "reasonable adjustments" the firm could refuse and look towards a capability dismissal. If that were to happen it would then come down to whether an employment tribunal agreed with their assessment of what is reasonable.

Either way it is not a redundancy situation but of course the firm could offer you a settlement agreement to "go quietly" in exchange for a sum of money and signing away any legal claim.

I also agree with this. Capability and redundancy are very different. But an employer might "settle" for redundancy if you also agree to make life simpler for themselves. But is losing your job, no matter what the terms, acceptable to you? Because if you fight for your job you might have to go to tribunal and you might lose - but also winning rarely nets the sort of payouts that people expect either. I think it would be useful for you to think about what it is that you want from this. Obviously (perhaps) your first choice is the job/shifts you want. But if that isn't possible, what is next on the list?

BTW, it is entirely possible for the employer paying for your training to be a reasonable adjustment, so not having the licence for FLT's isn't really a barrier if they will retrain you - and might be a useful thing to have if you ended up back in the employment market.