Ebico, British Gas & the EOS

[Deleted User]

westofsouth said:

Thank you Dolor, I have not yet had time to study your extremely well informed previous post. This suggests you have close connections to the energy supply industry. Is this the case?

Just to reiterate (for anyone who's not totally bored by now)

Broadly speaking, it is the position of British Gas that a gas opening reading given in kWh = no gas opening reading. This position was supported by the EOS.
 

However Ebico* did not object to, and clearly accepted, the kWh gas opening reading.

I have demonstrated that it is very easy (in less than 10sec?) to convert from kWh back to a very accurate baseline gas volume figure, which can then be used for billing calculations in the usual way.

If the EOS do not accept this, then imo they should not permit gas meters to continue displaying in kWh.

* the original supplier before BG took them over.

Your contract was not with Ebico: it was with British Gas the holder of the Supply Licence. Accepting a meter reading and using it are two different things.

Most modern gas meters will display kWhs using a fixed (proxy CV) - but it is there for consumer information only. The figure that you provide in kWhs will have built up since the meter was first installed. Even if it was possible to recover many years of daily calorific values; average them and then truncate them to come up with a figure, the final calculation would not match the index reading on your meter. You cannot just take a kWh figure and divide it by 39.3 and then use that as an index reading. A 'No gas opening reading' just means that the reading that you provided was rejected and the opening reading was estimated by the industry data collector using past validated data. 

I think that you have to accept that you have made a mistake and move on.

Here is a screenshot that shows how the gas caloric value has changed over the past 10 days for gas supplied to my region:  (Note the variation - 39.3 to 40. Gas passing through the main pipeline system has a CV range of 37.5 MJ/m3 to 43.0 MJ/m3. Some Scottish Regions use LPG so the CV is higher)

greenguppie

Dolor said:

westofsouth said:

Thank you Dolor, I have not yet had time to study your extremely well informed previous post. This suggests you have close connections to the energy supply industry. Is this the case?

Just to reiterate (for anyone who's not totally bored by now)

Broadly speaking, it is the position of British Gas that a gas opening reading given in kWh = no gas opening reading. This position was supported by the EOS.
 

However Ebico* did not object to, and clearly accepted, the kWh gas opening reading.

I have demonstrated that it is very easy (in less than 10sec?) to convert from kWh back to a very accurate baseline gas volume figure, which can then be used for billing calculations in the usual way.

If the EOS do not accept this, then imo they should not permit gas meters to continue displaying in kWh.

* the original supplier before BG took them over.

Your contract was not with Ebico: it was with British Gas the holder of the Supply Licence. ...

Just a quick correction, if I may?

The OP started this thread by saying "A dual fuel account was set up with Ebico in early Sept 2020."

At that time, the supply partner for Ebico was Robin Hood Energy.

RHE shortly thereafter sold their order book to British Gas.
As a result British Gas arranged for the switching of all customers supplied by RHE to be switched to British Gas.
https://www.centrica.com/media-centre/news/2020/british-gas-to-purchase-the-customer-base-of-robin-hood-energy/
(whilst that notice is dated early Sept 2020, it was advance notice, and the notice says "Completion of the transaction is expected on 16 September with customers moving to British Gas over the next few months."

This appears to have been a pre pack administration agreement, with RHE formally appointing an administrator in January 2021.

Ebico have never had a supply partnership with British Gas.

Ebico originally had a supply partnership with SSE.
They changed that to RHE early 2017. Customers had to actively agree to that change of supplier from SSE to RHE for that change.
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/compliance-engagement-sse-and-robin-hood-energy-meeting-requirements-their-gas-and-electricity-supply-licences-conditions-22-22d-and-25-when-changing-white-label-provider

Ebico have this year entered into a new supply partnership with Octopus Energy, having lost all their former energy customers when RHE sold them all to British Gas.
 

[Deleted User]

greenguppie said:

Dolor said:

westofsouth said:

Thank you Dolor, I have not yet had time to study your extremely well informed previous post. This suggests you have close connections to the energy supply industry. Is this the case?

Just to reiterate (for anyone who's not totally bored by now)

Broadly speaking, it is the position of British Gas that a gas opening reading given in kWh = no gas opening reading. This position was supported by the EOS.
 

However Ebico* did not object to, and clearly accepted, the kWh gas opening reading.

I have demonstrated that it is very easy (in less than 10sec?) to convert from kWh back to a very accurate baseline gas volume figure, which can then be used for billing calculations in the usual way.

If the EOS do not accept this, then imo they should not permit gas meters to continue displaying in kWh.

* the original supplier before BG took them over.

Your contract was not with Ebico: it was with British Gas the holder of the Supply Licence. ...

Just a quick correction, if I may?

The OP started this thread by saying "A dual fuel account was set up with Ebico in early Sept 2020."

At that time, the supply partner for Ebico was Robin Hood Energy.

RHE sold their order book to British Gas.
As a result British Gas arranged for the switching of all customers supplied by RHE to be switched by British Gas.
https://www.centrica.com/media-centre/news/2020/british-gas-to-purchase-the-customer-base-of-robin-hood-energy/
(whilst that notice is dated early Sept 2020, it was advance notice, and the notice says "Completion of the transaction is expected on 16 September with customers moving to British Gas over the next few months."

Ebico have never had a supply partnership with British Gas.

Ebico originally had a supply partnership with SSE.
They changed that to RHE early 2017. Customers had to actively agree to that change of supplier from SSE to RHE for that change.
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/compliance-engagement-sse-and-robin-hood-energy-meeting-requirements-their-gas-and-electricity-supply-licences-conditions-22-22d-and-25-when-changing-white-label-provider

Ebico have this year entered into a new supply partnership with Octopus Energy, having lost all their former energy customers when RHE sold them all to British Gas.
 

Thank you. I understand all of that but I was going on the comment ‘It is the position of BRITISH GAS that the opening reading given in kWh = no gas opening reading’.  In my view, BG’s position is correct and their data collector has estimated a RHE to BG opening reading based on past validated data.  

greenguppie

Dolor said:

greenguppie said:

Dolor said:

westofsouth said:

Thank you Dolor, I have not yet had time to study your extremely well informed previous post. This suggests you have close connections to the energy supply industry. Is this the case?

Just to reiterate (for anyone who's not totally bored by now)

Broadly speaking, it is the position of British Gas that a gas opening reading given in kWh = no gas opening reading. This position was supported by the EOS.
 

However Ebico* did not object to, and clearly accepted, the kWh gas opening reading.

I have demonstrated that it is very easy (in less than 10sec?) to convert from kWh back to a very accurate baseline gas volume figure, which can then be used for billing calculations in the usual way.

If the EOS do not accept this, then imo they should not permit gas meters to continue displaying in kWh.

* the original supplier before BG took them over.

Your contract was not with Ebico: it was with British Gas the holder of the Supply Licence. ...

Just a quick correction, if I may?

The OP started this thread by saying "A dual fuel account was set up with Ebico in early Sept 2020."

At that time, the supply partner for Ebico was Robin Hood Energy.

RHE sold their order book to British Gas.
As a result British Gas arranged for the switching of all customers supplied by RHE to be switched by British Gas.
https://www.centrica.com/media-centre/news/2020/british-gas-to-purchase-the-customer-base-of-robin-hood-energy/
(whilst that notice is dated early Sept 2020, it was advance notice, and the notice says "Completion of the transaction is expected on 16 September with customers moving to British Gas over the next few months."

Ebico have never had a supply partnership with British Gas.

Ebico originally had a supply partnership with SSE.
They changed that to RHE early 2017. Customers had to actively agree to that change of supplier from SSE to RHE for that change.
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/compliance-engagement-sse-and-robin-hood-energy-meeting-requirements-their-gas-and-electricity-supply-licences-conditions-22-22d-and-25-when-changing-white-label-provider

Ebico have this year entered into a new supply partnership with Octopus Energy, having lost all their former energy customers when RHE sold them all to British Gas.
 

Thank you. I understand all of that but I was going on the comment ‘It is the position of BRITISH GAS that the opening reading given in kWh = no gas opening reading’.  In my view, BG’s position is correct and their data collector has estimated a RHE to BG opening reading based on past validated data.  

Ah, I see where you are coming from now.

I must admit, I am finding this thread a little difficult to follow fully (not helped by the lack of answers the OP has provided to questions posed by others to try and claify the situation), and I had assumed the OP was still trying to maintain their incorrect assumption they also made in their OP where they incorrectly stated "Ebico became British Gas"

As I have already provided my advice to the OP in this thread, none of which has been commented or otherwise acknowledged on by the OP, I think I will bow out of this thread here.

[Deleted User]

Most threads become difficult to follow when, as time moves on, it becomes clear that there is more to the tale than the original post suggests. The relationship between White Label suppliers and actual supplier is also not well understood: who bothers to read contract terms and conditions. The only party that would deal with meter readings would be the energy supplier even if these were actioned on what might appear to be an Ebico website. In some respects, gas is less complicated than electricity as there is only one industry data collector. For electricity, each supplier chooses its own data collecting service.

westofsouth

In the final report, the EOS investigating officer stated:

"gas readings are not provided in kWh (kilowatt hours), they are always provided in m3 (cubic meters)"

In this age of so called 'smart' meters, is this a valid statement?

Robin9

Yes because you cannot simply convert m3 to kWh there is a variable involved - Calorific Value

westofsouth

Recently received an apology from British Gas, along with  a revised bill for the sum of......£0.00

No sense of victory here, just perplexed and somewhat dismayed that it took so long for common sense (and the facts) to prevail.