Ebico, British Gas & the EOS

QrizB

^ None of that however is relevant. Your supplier asked for, and wanted, the meter reading in cubic metres, not in kWh.

And you still haven't answered any of these questions:

QrizB said:

westofsouth said:

A dual fuel account was set up with Ebico in early Sept 2020. They of course asked for opening readings, which I provided. However after receiving the first bill for this empty property it was clear that for gas they had used a much lower estimated reading to open the account. This resulted in an an excessive bill for nil gas consumption.

There is some information missing here.

• You say "this empty property". Is it a new build and you're the first occupier, or is it a vacant-possesion purchase/rental?
• What was your meter reading when you took possession?
• What opening meter readings did Ebico use, and how do those differ from the readings you provided?
• Who was the supplier prior to Ebico, and what readings did they use when closing your account with them?
  

If you're not prepared to give any of this info, there's no way we can help.

westofsouth

Thank you for your pithy and insightful comments QrizB. But I think we will have to agree to disagree and leave it at that...

TheMilkmansDad

and for those impartial viewers we can all agree there's no point in flogging a dead horse.

You ask for help, we try to help. You do not provide any information requested so that we can have a better understanding of the issue and hopefully assist with the situation. You pack up your toys and go home.

Well played sir, well played indeed.

[Deleted User]

westofsouth said:

Thank you Dolor, interesting comments..

"The EOS does not investigate a complaint",
However the EOS staff member dealing with the case described himself as an 'os-investigative-officer'...

I can do no more than quote what is stated on the EOS website:

” We base our decision on the evidence submitted by both parties . If you choose to accept our final resolution your supplier has 28 days to comply. Our resolutions are enforceable in court.”

[Deleted User]

westofsouth said:

Thank you for your comments QrizB

Can I suggest you run this past your engineering friends... 

Example:

I provide the energy supplier with the meter reading say, 6138kWh

This can then be divided by the fixed 'built in' conversion factor (see earlier post), to obtain the volume figure  6138/11.1354 = 551.2m³

This volume figure can then be used to establish kWh consumption in the usual way, taking into account the current calorific value.  =551.2x1.02264x39.3/3.6 = 6153.5kWh

6153kWh is then used for billing purposes.

Note 39.3 is the current CV used by British Gas  

No supplier in the land is allowed to use fixed CVs for the gas they supply. 

CVs are based on the average CV for the gas provided by National Grid during the billing period TRUNCATED to one decimal point. An average CV of 39.35 would be billed as 39.3.

westofsouth

IMO too much information would simply muddy the water. The issue is simple - is it reasonable to expect that an energy  supplier should accept, and be capable of processing, a smart gas meter reading given in kWh.
  

Ebico customer Services were helpful. They did not object to the kWh gas reading or insist that the opening reading should be m³. It was accepted without comment.

There are possibly over a million smart gas meters in the UK, presumably all able to display both m³ & kWh. A reasonable assumption would be that energy suppliers have adapted and have the ability to process gas readings in either format.

Of course I accept that probably none of these issues would have arisen had the opening reading been given in volume format. However, it was my first encounter with a so-called 'smart' meter...


Dolors -   Interesting- has there been a suggestion that fixed CVs should be considered?

[Deleted User]

This is the policy. We are paying for gas in kWhs and the CV changes each day and it is not the same in all supply regions.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2014/08/supplier_guidance_on_cv_calculation.pdf

Suppliers are not allowed to accept readings in kWhs.

westofsouth

Dolor said:

Suppliers are not allowed to accept readings in kWhs.

So clearly Ebico were at fault when they accepted my kWh gas reading without question or comment and opened the dual fuel account the next day!

[Deleted User]

westofsouth said:

Dolor said:

Suppliers are not allowed to accept readings in kWhs.

So clearly Ebico were at fault when they accepted my kWh gas reading without question or comment and opened the dual fuel account the next day!

When a consumer provides an opening reading it is validated by an industry-accredited data collector. The validated reading is then passed to the old supplier to close your account and to your new supplier to open your account. The fact that you provided a reading in kWhs is irrelevant. Past validated readings would have shown that there was as error. Data collectors, who validate all meter readings, do not log kWhs for gas nor do they reverse calculate your index reading.

In truth, you gave Ebico nothing. As a ‘white label’ supplier your contract was with the Ebico partner which holds the Supply Licence. It supplies the energy; customer services and billing. At the present time, the new Ebico is a ‘white label’ Octopus supplier.

So why are all opening readings validated? The answer is threefold: one, some people do not bother to provide a reading; many people provide an incorrect reading (such as yourself), and some people deliberately provide an erroneous reading if they think that they can save a few £s. The validation process also prevents suppliers from arguing about the transfer of supply readings.

The key messages here are that all gas index readings are in volume not kWhs - that is, either cubic feet or cubic meters - and suppliers are not allowed to use fixed Calorific Values. That said, where a gas meter does provide a kWh figure it is there for consumer information and it is based on a proxy fixed calorific value. It follows that the billed kWhs may differ from what is shown on the meter because of daily calorific value changes.

westofsouth

Thank you Dolor, I have not yet had time to study your extremely well informed previous post. This suggests you have close connections to the energy supply industry. Is this the case?

Just to reiterate (for anyone who's not totally bored by now)

Broadly speaking, it is the position of British Gas that a gas opening reading given in kWh = no gas opening reading. This position was supported by the EOS.
 

However Ebico* did not object to, and clearly accepted, the kWh gas opening reading.

I have demonstrated that it is very easy (in less than 10sec?) to convert from kWh back to a very accurate baseline gas volume figure, which can then be used for billing calculations in the usual way.

If the EOS do not accept this, then imo they should not permit gas meters to continue displaying in kWh.

* the original supplier before BG took them over.